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Message: <blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 7984822" data-attributes="member: 6779310">As I've come to expect, another unsubtle and fundamentally flawed analysis.Not all stochastic modes are simple rolled attributes; Redrick's rolling mode, and my implementation of it as a roller, is a hybrid of the two. It randomly assigns the points for the 5E point build.Card based char gen as done in Dragonlance Fifth Age is not determinisitic - you draw 12 cards, and allocate them to the 8 primary atts, expertise, wealth, and two personality factors. The deck is 82 cards deep, no central tendency distribution.  Choices with random - Classic Traveller is the simplest to explain. Random attribtues, then pick a service, attempt to enter that service, attempt to not die, attempt to get a commission if desired, attempt to get a promotion if desired and holding a commission, make aging saves, decide whether to attempt reenlistment, roll reenlistment (even if not desired, a nat 12 compels), roll for skills for the term on selected tables. If reenlisted, go back to avoiding death and repeat. Multiple choices, a good bit of control. Later editions (including the d20 edition, but not GURPS nor Hero) all increase the number of choices.Deterministic...Pregen only systems: Feng Shui 2, several storygames. Technically, Marvel Heroic RP, too, as the "Character Creation" chapter isn't a character generation ruleset, merely advice on statting up charactersMultiple template systems - No point spends.The simplest I've seen is Danger Patrol Alpha. Pick a left half sheet, and a Right Half Sheet, put them together, add a name, D&D 5E technically falls into this, at least when using array. Priority spend systems: Shadowrun, Mechwarrior 2e...  technically a multi-pool point spend... but the priority system is determining the sizes of the other pools. It avoids many of the pitfalls of pure points. Especially, when combined with templates. (Mechwarrior doesn't enforce that, but when a GM does...) But not the "Knuckles the XXIII" syndromeDefining abilities systems - everyone has a set number of abilities, but then defines them in an open ended method. Non-random, non-deterministic, as well. Fate can be handled this way; when it's a specific size tree, and  all aspects are up to group agreement, the deterministic skills are often outweighed by the aspects.</blockquote>

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