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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7985496" data-attributes="member: 16814">How, exactly, do you propose that someone provide you examples of play from outside their own play?There are plenty of games where character build is point-buy, but system mastery will not give you an advantage.&nbsp; As noted, Apocalypse World is one, Blades in the Dark another. The counter is that system mastery can aid you even in random generation -- ie, choice of character build after stats in D&amp;D is very susceptible to system mastery.It isn't a question of if they wouldn't, it's a statement that some games exist where it not really possible.[USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] didn't dismiss anything -- he followed up on what you said.&nbsp; You're the one, if anyone is, dismissing other's play.&nbsp; And, he gave you examples.&nbsp; Random stat generation in some games is just silly, not because of any unfairness in the world or because of what a group chooses, but because the very structure of the game would make that pointless.&nbsp; Take Blades in the Dark -- random stat generation doesn't make a bit of sense for this game.&nbsp; It accomplishes nothing and actually skews the resolution mechanic in play.&nbsp; There's no sense to doing random stat generation in Blades, and it has nothing to do with unfairness or choice.You should really get out an try some other games before making blanket assertions about how games play.&nbsp; Sure, you play the 800 lb. gorilla game, D&amp;D, and it's a great game (I happen to really enjoy 5e), but it's not the apex because how it does things are the bestest of all ways ever.&nbsp; It's the apex because it does enough things well that many people can enjoy playing it.&nbsp; And, that means that there's many ways to play it, not just yours.I don't think anyone actually cares to win you over.&nbsp; Why would they?&nbsp; They aren't playing with you, nor does what happens at your table impact them.&nbsp; There's an opportunity to discuss how games work, though, which doesn't require anyone to change how they actually play unless they choose to.&nbsp; Don't confuse a willingness to explore how games can play with any attempt to get you to change how you play.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7985496, member: 16814"] How, exactly, do you propose that someone provide you examples of play from outside their own play? There are plenty of games where character build is point-buy, but system mastery will not give you an advantage. As noted, Apocalypse World is one, Blades in the Dark another. The counter is that system mastery can aid you even in random generation -- ie, choice of character build after stats in D&D is very susceptible to system mastery. It isn't a question of if they wouldn't, it's a statement that some games exist where it not really possible. [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] didn't dismiss anything -- he followed up on what you said. You're the one, if anyone is, dismissing other's play. And, he gave you examples. Random stat generation in some games is just silly, not because of any unfairness in the world or because of what a group chooses, but because the very structure of the game would make that pointless. Take Blades in the Dark -- random stat generation doesn't make a bit of sense for this game. It accomplishes nothing and actually skews the resolution mechanic in play. There's no sense to doing random stat generation in Blades, and it has nothing to do with unfairness or choice. You should really get out an try some other games before making blanket assertions about how games play. Sure, you play the 800 lb. gorilla game, D&D, and it's a great game (I happen to really enjoy 5e), but it's not the apex because how it does things are the bestest of all ways ever. It's the apex because it does enough things well that many people can enjoy playing it. And, that means that there's many ways to play it, not just yours. I don't think anyone actually cares to win you over. Why would they? They aren't playing with you, nor does what happens at your table impact them. There's an opportunity to discuss how games work, though, which doesn't require anyone to change how they actually play unless they choose to. Don't confuse a willingness to explore how games can play with any attempt to get you to change how you play. [/QUOTE]

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