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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 8730410" data-attributes="member: 6855114">Indeed, why would religion matter, especially if you can worship a simple philosophy and gain spell...Again, gods need worshippers to increase their power and to maintain it. If you go the creator god way. You need to have them being created by something else beforehand. Such as Chronos creating the gods in the Greek mythology, or things like the Great Ancients that the gods banished to the Far Realms and so on. But even without worshippers, gods are gods, but they are simply much more powerful with devout worshippers. As to why should it matter to be affiliated and why would a cleric heal non believers...5ed and even 4ed gave away the power of healing to non divine classes. This is both a sad thing and the main reason why people are now asking why should we have a cleric in the first place and even why should we have gods. If you remove modern sensitivity about religion and how it should work, in a world where the gods are real, people will worship them. Heck, some of the Hollywood stars are literally worshipped by their fans and they do not grant spells... So imagine if they could... So if the power of healing was in 5ed relegated to clerics and druids only people would see a bit more reasons to have a whole church at their back. But even without that monopoly on healing worshipping a god and be affiliated with a religion has a lot to offer. 1) A god backs you up. What the evil have you can have too. 2) The possibility to be raised at no cost simply because you were questing for the church.3) You will have someone that really cares about you and your success. And these will make sure to back you up. I have had a group TPKed only to be revived with true resurrection a month later when divination cast by the cleric's church showed that they were dead. A bard friend will not be able to do that but a powerful church will. 4) Churches have  connections with the whole world where the church is present. Known worshippers and allies of the church will offer aid and assistance to champions of the gods. And remember that a god is backing you. That is a lot to think of. In old editions (1ed and 2ed) to get his spells of higher level, the cleric was communing with his/her deity directly, I have kept this aspect throughout the editions simply because it allows the cleric to interact with the god! I often use this to counsel the player on the challenges ahead. "Yes my daughter, I know that you want this spell, but would it not be better to take such spell instead?" Clever players knew that this was a free warning and hint of the challenge to come. It is exactly this kind of interaction that is missing in 5ed. Without it, a cleric is simply another healer in game where healing is already plentiful...</blockquote>

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