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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cergorach" data-source="post: 9799877" data-attributes="member: 725">I kind of think it "depends", there is no formula for a good game, otherwise companies like EA and Ubisoft wouldn't be in so much trouble these days... They would just use the 'formula' to kick out Bangers. I even suspect that it really depends on what kind of game you're making. And while there's an comparison of Story vs. Gameplay only element in this article, you can make technically a great game, but if it doesn't sell...Look at the developer of Vampire Survivor, I doubt that was well thought out game design (from what I saw in interviews), but it was a success none the less. Jonas Tyroller (Islanders/Thronefall) has an interesting YT channel where he discusses his experiences and (evolving) theories on how he tries to make successful games.What's a good game/story also really depends on era, audience, etc. Some games, while extremely popular, just didn't age well and we're not talking just about graphics. Look at something like Dune 2, a BIG RTS title. It already had a TON of story, six books, a movie and a couple of games. Then they designed a RTS around that massive story. But 33 years later, sure the graphics aren't great, but probably the biggest issues is that the UI is clunky. Today RTS is a pretty dead genre, as the folks behind Frost Giant Studios (Stormgate) found out... There's still fans out there, it's just tiny compared to the AAA consumers, so you need to a LOT with relatively little to be economically viable.Looking at RPGs.. Story is important, where would Vampire: The Masquerade be without the story? The system is pretty darned good, but they still needed a second edition a year later. Mark Rein-Hagen, it's creator (also of Ars Magica), continued for another couple of years and then completely disappeared from the pnp RPG scene. When you look at his last project Exile (Sci-fi), it was mostly story, there was some stats, but no coherent rules set. Then we have something like Vampire, that remained popular despite it's rules. Something like D&D 4e had 34 years of story before it, the rules were pretty good if it was anything but D&D, it still failed because that particular story+mechanics!=D&D.What do I like? It depends... Sometimes it's the concept, sometimes it's the presentation, other times it's the mechanics, and sometimes it's the price... Something like Vampire Survivors looked interesting on YouTube, but at €60, or even €40 or €20 I wouldn't have bought it. But at €2,39 sure! Played it a lot on my Steam Deck and spent another €12 on DLC over the years. Quins did a YT review of the pnp RPG Spire, that sounded absolutely awesome! But because at the time I didn't expect to ever be able to GM it, I wasn't looking at spending money on books or PDFs, especially not at MSRP. A couple of months later Bundle of Holding came out with a Spire bundle, ~10 pdfs for $23, sure I'll pay that (and there was also a Heart companion bundle)! Since then I see some hope to GM in the future and those pdfs were a good read...Other times, I pay close to full price for a game (discounts, discounts everywhere! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> ). As an example, I'm a big fan of Warhammer (40k). When Warhammer Total War came out, I bought it, I bought every DLC, every standalone expansion at as good as MSRP. I also liked WFRP, 1st edition bought a few books, because back then I couldn't afford more. I liked WFRP2e, bought it all, disliked 3e (as I still really like 2e), and when I got the Humble Bundle with all the WFRP4e pdfs, eventually I bought all the Foundry VTT modules for WFRP4e. I mostly bought RPG products for concept/theme beyond the D&D we played. I have a similar tendency with board games, often buying the heavily themed miniature games, but a few I actually bought for mechanics. Century: Spice Road, Star Realms, Splendor, Raiders of the North Sea, Lords of Waterdeep, and Dune Imperium are good examples of mechanics over theme for me (doesn't mean that some don't also have an excellent theme).Generally with pnp RPGs it isn't about mechanics, it's more often about theme an concepts. If it was all about mechanics, we wouldn't be playing D&D on and off again for 30+ years... And the importance of mechanics in our pnp RPGs has decreased for some of us over the years as well. On the other hand I'm now in a place (technologically speaking) where I can far easier detach theme/concept from rules and attach a whole different rulesset relatively easy onto a setting or using an old system with new content (the power of PDFs and VTTs!)...My conclusion: It's not as simple as one way or another, sometimes things grab me mechanically, other times they grab me with concept/theme/story. And even if one part grabs me, that doesn't mean I'll like the other, depending on cicumstances, I might or might not buy it. And even IF you make the greatest story/gameplay game ever, if it's not economically viable, it either never shows up (problematic with crowdfunding), or doesn't stay around for long...</blockquote>

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