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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Garthanos" data-source="post: 8412057" data-attributes="member: 82504">Sure DM dependence kicks in, but a 4e DM has guidelines telling him (or implying) right off the bat in many ways skills are big things including with skill challenges where a skill check or ritual were considered comparable in effectiveness and also on the player side the players are shown skills have inherent power like effects (acrobatics reducing falling damage and arcana sense magic and others), later in the game (a short while relatively speaking) there came martial practices (one form theoretically of skills matching magic). Further read the martial power descriptions and headers about non-magic accomplishing comparable extraordinary things to magic. Still further along skill powers upped the anti explicitly saying skills can be just as big of thing as utility spells or class utilities. Numerically you also see large amounts of advancement that implies to me skilled actions and the things they can accomplish are fully not the same in paragon and epic either the numbers follow the flavor text well.Skills granting things every bit as effective as class utilities and spells and rituals is all over in 4e... and where is that in 5e?In the 5e the players handbook explicitly  notes that adventuring without magic is 10 x more difficult. The non magical classes feeling less capable than magic ( in the broad impact way 4e covers with skills) really seems on purpose to me not an accident.</blockquote>

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