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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Worlds of Design: The Destination, Not the Journey?
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<blockquote data-quote="Blue Orange" data-source="post: 8633722" data-attributes="member: 7025997"><p>I think what happened was less 'levels became more important' and more 'people kept wanting more levels'.</p><p></p><p>I went back through 1974 little-brown-back OD&D a little while ago for a different project, the earliest possible version of D&D after it evolved from Chainmail miniatures. Levels are <em>very much</em> a part of the reward structure of the game that far back, with characters who level up getting more HP, better attack chances, more and better spells, etc. </p><p></p><p>However, what you saw with D&D and later with MMORPGs was power creep. You stat out 6 levels of spells, so now people want levels 7, 8, and 9. You make the rules for the first 15 levels or so in the B/X version of BECMI D&D--so basic D&D went up to 36 and later beyond with the Companion, Master, and Immortals sets. They would try to cap it at various level limits (most commonly 20), but then were able to sell 'epic level rules' or the like with more powerful monsters, spells, and rules for divine ascension. </p><p></p><p>You see the same dynamic in MMORPGs as initially stated, with new levels being added on to attract new players. </p><p></p><p>There have been games, often aiming for genericity, like GURPS, Savage Worlds, and FATE that avoid levelling in favor of skill improvement. Vampire didn't <em>really</em> have levels, though I guess if you went with diablerie you might lower your generation, but you did increase your disciplines, and Mage had Arete and Werewolf Gnosis. You even have games like Call of Cthulhu with its Sanity stat where characters get <em>less</em> powerful with time and eventually go insane (Vampire's Humanity stat kind of worked the same way). But you have to be willing to tell a tragic story, and I suspect that's less appealing to most people. </p><p></p><p>Life sucks. As time goes on you get older, decrepit, and die. Your assets might increase over time if you're upper-middle-class or higher and don't catch any bad breaks like a long illness or divorce, but that's not the case for most people these days. But at least your characters can keep growing and gaining.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blue Orange, post: 8633722, member: 7025997"] I think what happened was less 'levels became more important' and more 'people kept wanting more levels'. I went back through 1974 little-brown-back OD&D a little while ago for a different project, the earliest possible version of D&D after it evolved from Chainmail miniatures. Levels are [I]very much[/I] a part of the reward structure of the game that far back, with characters who level up getting more HP, better attack chances, more and better spells, etc. However, what you saw with D&D and later with MMORPGs was power creep. You stat out 6 levels of spells, so now people want levels 7, 8, and 9. You make the rules for the first 15 levels or so in the B/X version of BECMI D&D--so basic D&D went up to 36 and later beyond with the Companion, Master, and Immortals sets. They would try to cap it at various level limits (most commonly 20), but then were able to sell 'epic level rules' or the like with more powerful monsters, spells, and rules for divine ascension. You see the same dynamic in MMORPGs as initially stated, with new levels being added on to attract new players. There have been games, often aiming for genericity, like GURPS, Savage Worlds, and FATE that avoid levelling in favor of skill improvement. Vampire didn't [I]really[/I] have levels, though I guess if you went with diablerie you might lower your generation, but you did increase your disciplines, and Mage had Arete and Werewolf Gnosis. You even have games like Call of Cthulhu with its Sanity stat where characters get [I]less[/I] powerful with time and eventually go insane (Vampire's Humanity stat kind of worked the same way). But you have to be willing to tell a tragic story, and I suspect that's less appealing to most people. Life sucks. As time goes on you get older, decrepit, and die. Your assets might increase over time if you're upper-middle-class or higher and don't catch any bad breaks like a long illness or divorce, but that's not the case for most people these days. But at least your characters can keep growing and gaining. [/QUOTE]
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