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Worlds of Design: The Nature of Armies
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<blockquote data-quote="Argyle King" data-source="post: 8743802" data-attributes="member: 58416"><p>Currently, my two favorites are on very different ends of how to approach things.</p><p></p><p>I like GURPS 4th Edition. Despite being a "toolkit" system, it tends toward some semblance of grittiness and plausibility as a default. I certainly acknowledge that it has conventions which rub a lot of people the wrong way. (The 1-second combat round can be a jarring change) My experience has been that the reputation of being too complex is exaggerated. It certainly can be if all of the optional rules are turned on, but I wouldn't suggest that any more than I would suggest throwing a bunch of D&D books at a new player. It's by no means a perfect game. I learned a lot of things through trial and error (and I use a few house rules,) but I found that GURPS actually could do what D&D 3rd Edition made me believe it could do. Out of the box, it assumes a grounded (or "bounded") baseline before adding on the fantasy elements.</p><p></p><p>It's not fantasy, but <a href="https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/star-wars-edge-of-the-empire/" target="_blank">Edge of the Empire</a> (Fantasy Flight Games) is good. In contrast to the simulationist mindset of GURPS, Edge takes more of a narrative approach to things. However, I have found that it works well in feeling "real" because of three reasons:</p><p>1) Most things have tradeoffs. Sure, you can pump all of your points into one ability, but that means have weaknesses (which actually matter) in other areas.</p><p>2) Actual thought was put into how individual characters interact with vehicles, ship weapons, and so-forth.</p><p>3) The game does a good job of keeping the action moving even when a conflict increases in size. I've had sessions involving chases, space dogfights, and ground battles back-to-back-tp-back; and it never felt like the group was just sitting in a room and hack away at HP. Likewise, a group of Storm Troopers could be deadly if the PCs use bad tactics.</p><p></p><p>... it's still Star Wars; it still allows the PCs to feel special and heroic; but it also puts effort into giving some teeth to antagonists and making a conflict feel like one. Can I mangle a squad of Storm Troopers? Yes, but I can also go down to a hail of blaster fire if I'm using Jenkins-Tzu's Art of War and banking on my 'soak' to save me.</p><p></p><p>In both of the cases above, my personal belief is that how hit points and defenses are handled are a big part of the experience. How they handle things differently (than D&D) is very different from each other, but still both work. I think that's important to point out because it shows that there are multiple solutions.</p><p></p><p>Of the two, I would guess that Edge is likely more similar to the style familiar to a contemporary D&D audience. I love the blood & guts approach to GURPS, but it has the potential to be a jarring experience for players accustomed to being able to soak hits with D&D hitpoints. The last two editions have made monsters "harder" by piling on more HP.</p><p></p><p>(Dungeon Fantasy does an okayish job at doing D&Dish style but isn't what I want if I'm going for war and conflict rather than Dungeon Supers. <a href="https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gamingballistic/nordlond-sagas-for-the-dungeon-fantasy-rpg" target="_blank">Douglas Cole's Gaming Ballistic stuff</a> is good. <a href="http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/aftertheend/" target="_blank">After the End</a> can be refluffed into a pretty good approximation of Dark Sun.)</p><p></p><p>I'm aware that Genesys is the 'generic' version of Edge. I have the materials but haven't played it yet. I'm not quite sold on how it handles magic. Which is weird because the Star Wars stuff does a decent job of allowing the Force to feel magical but without trivializing non-Force-users.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Argyle King, post: 8743802, member: 58416"] Currently, my two favorites are on very different ends of how to approach things. I like GURPS 4th Edition. Despite being a "toolkit" system, it tends toward some semblance of grittiness and plausibility as a default. I certainly acknowledge that it has conventions which rub a lot of people the wrong way. (The 1-second combat round can be a jarring change) My experience has been that the reputation of being too complex is exaggerated. It certainly can be if all of the optional rules are turned on, but I wouldn't suggest that any more than I would suggest throwing a bunch of D&D books at a new player. It's by no means a perfect game. I learned a lot of things through trial and error (and I use a few house rules,) but I found that GURPS actually could do what D&D 3rd Edition made me believe it could do. Out of the box, it assumes a grounded (or "bounded") baseline before adding on the fantasy elements. It's not fantasy, but [URL='https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/star-wars-edge-of-the-empire/']Edge of the Empire[/URL] (Fantasy Flight Games) is good. In contrast to the simulationist mindset of GURPS, Edge takes more of a narrative approach to things. However, I have found that it works well in feeling "real" because of three reasons: 1) Most things have tradeoffs. Sure, you can pump all of your points into one ability, but that means have weaknesses (which actually matter) in other areas. 2) Actual thought was put into how individual characters interact with vehicles, ship weapons, and so-forth. 3) The game does a good job of keeping the action moving even when a conflict increases in size. I've had sessions involving chases, space dogfights, and ground battles back-to-back-tp-back; and it never felt like the group was just sitting in a room and hack away at HP. Likewise, a group of Storm Troopers could be deadly if the PCs use bad tactics. ... it's still Star Wars; it still allows the PCs to feel special and heroic; but it also puts effort into giving some teeth to antagonists and making a conflict feel like one. Can I mangle a squad of Storm Troopers? Yes, but I can also go down to a hail of blaster fire if I'm using Jenkins-Tzu's Art of War and banking on my 'soak' to save me. In both of the cases above, my personal belief is that how hit points and defenses are handled are a big part of the experience. How they handle things differently (than D&D) is very different from each other, but still both work. I think that's important to point out because it shows that there are multiple solutions. Of the two, I would guess that Edge is likely more similar to the style familiar to a contemporary D&D audience. I love the blood & guts approach to GURPS, but it has the potential to be a jarring experience for players accustomed to being able to soak hits with D&D hitpoints. The last two editions have made monsters "harder" by piling on more HP. (Dungeon Fantasy does an okayish job at doing D&Dish style but isn't what I want if I'm going for war and conflict rather than Dungeon Supers. [URL='https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gamingballistic/nordlond-sagas-for-the-dungeon-fantasy-rpg']Douglas Cole's Gaming Ballistic stuff[/URL] is good. [URL='http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/aftertheend/']After the End[/URL] can be refluffed into a pretty good approximation of Dark Sun.) I'm aware that Genesys is the 'generic' version of Edge. I have the materials but haven't played it yet. I'm not quite sold on how it handles magic. Which is weird because the Star Wars stuff does a decent job of allowing the Force to feel magical but without trivializing non-Force-users. [/QUOTE]
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