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Worlds of Design: The Rules of Magic
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8469317" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>Well, we need to analyze the drawbacks as well to understand why the seemingly dry and boring spell systems of D&D remain popular. I mean, just concluding "D&D doesn't feel magical, I don't get why people don't play XYZ instead" isn't really a complete understanding.</p><p></p><p>One problem with games without rigid limits and stipulations is that the experience of negotiating a reasonable magical effect (reasonable not just within the game world logic, but also reasonable in terms of not unbalanced/overpowered/cheesy/spotlight-hogging when the session is viewed as a game where everyone at the table supposedly gets their chance to shine) might feel fresh at first, but soon you will realize you have just exchanged written rules for unwritten rules.</p><p></p><p>Instead of playing an edition of Dungeons & Dragons or My Little Pony or whatever, you're now playing Bob the GM or Sue the Keeper. It's altogether far too easy to settle into a groove of what works (what Bob or Sue likes, agrees to, or finds reasonable). It will of course be better than written rules when Bob is a great GM. But it will more often than not result in Sue forgetting to give everybody a fair deal, or Sue letting the most talkative player dominate with his spells, or something else. In short, there's a reason we invented game rules. "Not using rules" just isn't the brilliant new invention proponents sometimes tries to sell it as...</p><p></p><p>Next, games with "risk" as cost. Besides the examples already mentioned, you have Warhammer's "be seen using magic and you might end up getting burned as a Witch". The problem here is: are you meant to use your magic or not? If magic is the supposed tool the character needs to get by in life, then the player will want to use that tool. Trying to warn him off just isn't sincere. Again, in literature it can work very well to give the protagonist abilities that really are just curses. But ttrpgs are not literature. It's the player, not the script-writer, who is supposed to make decisions!</p><p></p><p>I much prefer systems where the designers already acknowledge from the start the point of a Wizard character is to cast spells, and then avoids adding systems that might get the character killed simply because it uses the abilities it has been given. (Also see the "it sucks to play a Wizard out of spells resorting to slinging stones so we gave the class cantrips" discussion. A good idea in general just unfortunately taken too far with infinite cantrips).</p><p></p><p>Again, the problem is trying to solve a player-facing problem using character-facing solutions.</p><p></p><p>The problem isn't the character using endless magic to dominate play. Mighty wizards obliterating the monstrous hordes is a staple of the genre. The problem is the player using endless magic to dominate play, because the other players feel useless. Again, an out-of-world problem should be solved with an out-of-world solution. Vancian spell slots is perhaps the crudest and simplest such solution. (Also see "mana points" etc) This doesn't mean those solutions are perfect. For one thing, there's no unpredictability. (Also, Vancian slots are stupendously baffling <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> ) But they have the advantage over "use the cool stuff we give you and you might end up one a pyre" solutions.</p><p></p><p>If you like, consider this post playing the devil's advocate. I just want to nuance the discussion, making it easier to understand why people settle for the supposedly boring and inferior magic systems, and, to really make my point: make it easier to understand <u>what you need to still provide</u> in your supposed "soft" magic system to sell it to actual roleplayers and not just those unfortunate souls that confuse gamesmastering for recounting their personal novellas, where the player characters are just props with limited agency in the GM's dream narrative.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 8469317, member: 12731"] Well, we need to analyze the drawbacks as well to understand why the seemingly dry and boring spell systems of D&D remain popular. I mean, just concluding "D&D doesn't feel magical, I don't get why people don't play XYZ instead" isn't really a complete understanding. One problem with games without rigid limits and stipulations is that the experience of negotiating a reasonable magical effect (reasonable not just within the game world logic, but also reasonable in terms of not unbalanced/overpowered/cheesy/spotlight-hogging when the session is viewed as a game where everyone at the table supposedly gets their chance to shine) might feel fresh at first, but soon you will realize you have just exchanged written rules for unwritten rules. Instead of playing an edition of Dungeons & Dragons or My Little Pony or whatever, you're now playing Bob the GM or Sue the Keeper. It's altogether far too easy to settle into a groove of what works (what Bob or Sue likes, agrees to, or finds reasonable). It will of course be better than written rules when Bob is a great GM. But it will more often than not result in Sue forgetting to give everybody a fair deal, or Sue letting the most talkative player dominate with his spells, or something else. In short, there's a reason we invented game rules. "Not using rules" just isn't the brilliant new invention proponents sometimes tries to sell it as... Next, games with "risk" as cost. Besides the examples already mentioned, you have Warhammer's "be seen using magic and you might end up getting burned as a Witch". The problem here is: are you meant to use your magic or not? If magic is the supposed tool the character needs to get by in life, then the player will want to use that tool. Trying to warn him off just isn't sincere. Again, in literature it can work very well to give the protagonist abilities that really are just curses. But ttrpgs are not literature. It's the player, not the script-writer, who is supposed to make decisions! I much prefer systems where the designers already acknowledge from the start the point of a Wizard character is to cast spells, and then avoids adding systems that might get the character killed simply because it uses the abilities it has been given. (Also see the "it sucks to play a Wizard out of spells resorting to slinging stones so we gave the class cantrips" discussion. A good idea in general just unfortunately taken too far with infinite cantrips). Again, the problem is trying to solve a player-facing problem using character-facing solutions. The problem isn't the character using endless magic to dominate play. Mighty wizards obliterating the monstrous hordes is a staple of the genre. The problem is the player using endless magic to dominate play, because the other players feel useless. Again, an out-of-world problem should be solved with an out-of-world solution. Vancian spell slots is perhaps the crudest and simplest such solution. (Also see "mana points" etc) This doesn't mean those solutions are perfect. For one thing, there's no unpredictability. (Also, Vancian slots are stupendously baffling ;) ) But they have the advantage over "use the cool stuff we give you and you might end up one a pyre" solutions. If you like, consider this post playing the devil's advocate. I just want to nuance the discussion, making it easier to understand why people settle for the supposedly boring and inferior magic systems, and, to really make my point: make it easier to understand [U]what you need to still provide[/U] in your supposed "soft" magic system to sell it to actual roleplayers and not just those unfortunate souls that confuse gamesmastering for recounting their personal novellas, where the player characters are just props with limited agency in the GM's dream narrative. [/QUOTE]
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