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Message: <blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 8186926" data-attributes="member: 6779310">Agreed - they mishandled the rules presentation.I enjoyed the two sessions I played... but not enough to actually ever run it.That was tried; it failed. 4E Essentials. Calling 4E D&D with the rather different class abilities was a huge image problem for adoption by prior edition fans.Including myself, who at one point actually loved D&D Rules Cyclopedia and AD&D 2E...No, not rivalling RM. RM has more steps, and more tables needed, as well as a lot more math.It's similar in process: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">D&D 3.x<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Generate Attributes</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Pick Race</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Pick Class </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Determine skill points</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spend Skill Points. All skills cost 1 point or 2 points, and up to 4 ranks allowed for level 1.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Pick feat(s)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If needed, pick which class ability.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">RM<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Pick Race</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Pick Class</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Generate attributes. (10x 1d100, assigned as desired) May or may not be modified by race; if class PR's under 90, raise to 90.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Generate potentials (roll d100 and table cross-reference with attribute)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">determine skill points for adolescence (table lookup from 5 of the 10 atts)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">spend adolescence skill points. Note that skills vary in point cost from 1 point per rank no limit to 25 points per rank max one rank per level, most allowing 1 or 2 ranks at costs under 10 per rank, with an average of 20-30 points per level. Each class has a different table. By RMC VI, there are over 60 classes....</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">spend Level 1 skill points</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">make background option rolls</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">depending upon GM selection of house rules, you may need to spend your dev points for when you level up to level 2, or you may need to do so when you hit halfway, or not until level 2 is hit...</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If you raised Concussion Hits, roll the racial HD the correct number of times. Add to base from Attribute current scores.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If you raised Spell Points, roll the racial SP die the correct number of times. Add to base from attributes.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Note: I don't remember if one is supposed to do attribute gain rolls for adolescence and level 1.</li> </ul></li> </ul>It's similar in core concept, but not nearly as detailed a system.I fully agree on this - but I can see the 3E fanboy PoV on it, too... The variety in 4E is not in damage output, but in damage method and types. My experience is about 30% seek system mastery, and 2/3 of those seek class optimization.about 50% are there to play, but aren't worried about mastery, just play. And somewhere around 19% find pushes for system mastery by others annoying, but not enough to play, and 1% want special snowflakes to break away from the pack and the system mastery players.As a recovering System Mastery type but not an optimizer type... the combination of GURPS, Hero, Rolemaster, and AD&D 2E Skills & Powers made me realize balance is an illusion, and that mathematical optimization not only was a timewasting exercise in one-ups-man-ship amongst the players I knew, but was actively detrimental to the appeal of those systems to me - the ability to generate a character to fit a concept, rather than to figure out a concept from the character as generated.I don't know that I'd enjoy running Rolemaster these days... but it was the least susceptible to mastery of them three. Hero was the one that actually comes closest to balanced, but even then, if you don't follow the everyman advice bits in 3rd Ed Champions, you're going to be underperforming.</blockquote>

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