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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8187154" data-attributes="member: 16814">No, I'm talking about making build choice to be good at a thing, but finding out that such choices aren't even good enough to be close to matching what other chouces did without trying.&nbsp; The bard didn't focus on intimidate, my character did.&nbsp; Yet, the bard was almost twice as effective because the skills they did focus on had side-line synergies into intimidate.&nbsp; The bard was hands down better at a thing my character concept was centered on not because the bard was also, but because of the way character build systems interact to make skill focus a trap choice.&nbsp; I'd have been better off picking up a synergy as a class skill with another feat choice, but then being better at something that wasn't part of the character concept.In other words, skill focus was a trap choice -- it didn't provide the result anticipated, and failed to do so in a situation where the other character didn't even try to focus on that skill.&nbsp; I only partial understood tge system at that point -- I hadn't looked at the social skill synergy effects and didn't fully understand them.&nbsp; So, I made a character trusting the labels on the tin and was outclassed by someone not trying.It's very telling that your counter is to suggest that I was relying on the bard when it was a core concept of my character to intimidate others (ie, I didn't want to rely on the bard), and that the second offer was to buck up -- my deck (character) will do okay when the other deck (character) isn't being played.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8187154, member: 16814"] No, I'm talking about making build choice to be good at a thing, but finding out that such choices aren't even good enough to be close to matching what other chouces did without trying. The bard didn't focus on intimidate, my character did. Yet, the bard was almost twice as effective because the skills they did focus on had side-line synergies into intimidate. The bard was hands down better at a thing my character concept was centered on not because the bard was also, but because of the way character build systems interact to make skill focus a trap choice. I'd have been better off picking up a synergy as a class skill with another feat choice, but then being better at something that wasn't part of the character concept. In other words, skill focus was a trap choice -- it didn't provide the result anticipated, and failed to do so in a situation where the other character didn't even try to focus on that skill. I only partial understood tge system at that point -- I hadn't looked at the social skill synergy effects and didn't fully understand them. So, I made a character trusting the labels on the tin and was outclassed by someone not trying. It's very telling that your counter is to suggest that I was relying on the bard when it was a core concept of my character to intimidate others (ie, I didn't want to rely on the bard), and that the second offer was to buck up -- my deck (character) will do okay when the other deck (character) isn't being played. [/QUOTE]

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