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Message: <blockquote data-quote="bowbe" data-source="post: 2991585" data-attributes="member: 6328">Hmm... First of all, is the question posed on this thread inquisitive of whether or not gamers hate oriental flavored things? Or if the posters to the forum simply dislike or are vehement in their disdain for anything in RPGs that is not Euro centric? Or...Is "oriental flavored D&D hating" the majority? As of this thread seems to be heading? I guess I am a little confused as to the answer we seem to be looking for. I would tend to agree that in "some" cases the definitive slant for adventure RPGs is to be heavily in favor of the eurocentric setting/campaign, this of course in large part due to the Chainmail origins of D&D. That said I have seen or worked on several products that have been successful without falling into this stereotype--however they may not necessarily be heavily influenced by far eastern (oriental) sources either. My personal preference is a fairly non euro-centric "lost world" style of campaign. Do I get to do or  run that all the time? No. Since the initial default for D&D has always been more eurocentric high fantasy, that is what most new gamers come to expect and which many older gamers tend to prefer. However:If I recall correctly Nyambe was quite successful for a 3.0 product. Its basis? Africa.I know from experience that the 3.0 version of Necropolis (based thoroughly in north african/egypt) was quite popular and sold well though it was originally a GDW Dangerous Journeys product that our guys re-vamped into 3ed.Morten Braten's Ancient Kingdoms: Mesopotamia... well you can guess where the theme for that one comes from. Definitely ancient near eastern in theme. Did pretty well from what I understand. Eberron seems to have its own distinctive feel that I would not characterize as being wholely eurocentric based.Most campaigns include Mummies, shedu, sphinxes, naga, djinn, jann, efreeti and the like. Most of these are drawn from Middle eastern myth and tradition which was more heavily influenced by the Eastern (oriental) flavor than european myth and legend, so there is some cultural bleed for you right there. Near european? Yes, but definitely not part of any "World Wide Europe as Default D&D" conspiracy. Ultimately I wouldn't necessarily say American gamers hate things with a flavor outside of european themes whole cloth as some posters have implied. Saying so is a heavy generalization. A generalization based on a minority of people who fervently post to these and other forums. Its like psionics hating. The more people love or hate it, the more frequently they post about it and the more widly critical or favorfull their posts become. To generalize in this manner denies a couple of points.Most people's first experience with RPGs is D&D. I would say the numbers and sales of D&D products prove this statement to be factual and not a generalization. The default setting for D&D happens to be swords and sorcery fantasy, which is based by and large on european myth. Thus it is the most familiar setting and framework to build upon. Equally the vast majority of fantasy novels of the genre share a similar default setting, furthering this familiarity. LOTR, Elric, Dragonlance, Ect. Ect. 2nd. America happens to be well into the 2nd and possibly 3rd decade of heavy influence of Anime culture, movies and games. The overall success of Exaulted as a game and its anime inspired campaign setting more than prove this, but Exalted isn't D20. It is instead its own game and system, heavily inspired by oriental themes, but blending these themes with things that are traditionally pop culture and possibly "american" in feel and flavor. The next generation of gamers grew up watching anime inspired cartoons such as Dragonballz. So lets please back off some of the "americans do this, and say that" sorta talk. Oriental influence in pop culture are everywhere! Kill Bill, John Woo movies, Yuen Chow Fat in the next Pirates of the Carribean movie! Expect much more of it to filter into mainstream D&D as the years go by. I think the stuff that annoys message board posters on the specific subject of liking or dislinking "Oriental" influence falls into a few distinct camps. Camp 1: Ones where the GMs theme world/campaign setting IS of a more eurocentric base, who get annoyed with people wanting to play "ninjas and samurai in Paris." which simply doesn't mesh with their "vision". These GMs may indeed have naturally gravitated to a natural desire to run a eurocentric game. It is what they are most familiar with thanks to products, novels, and campaign settings that have backed this model up for 30 years. In their campaign there is no room for ninjas, wu jen, or samurai trucking around their midieval themed countryside throwing ninja stars and beheading foes with katana and washisaka ruins their vision and ability to "suspend their disbelief". Category 2: Players who REALLY want to play ninja's and samurai in Paris who think the GM is full of crap and should allow them to be a ninja or samurai or wu jen irreguardless of what the GMs campaign vision is. It's D&D afterall and they just purchased the complete (insert whichever character archtype got murdered by the complete series here) and are damned well going to use the parts that they like! So they fight with the GM, the Gm allows them to make their character, and then treats them like crap, unfairly attempting to kill off their character at every turn (at least from their perspective). It may be true, or perhaps the GM is associating the oriental themed character with a stranger in a strange land scenario where the guy in the laquered wicker armor and demon faced mask seems a threat to the noble knight astride his trusty destrier. Category 3: Other players who get annoyed as all get out with the one person in the group who HAS to be a ninja, monk, or samurai, because after looking at the class, they find it to be so far broken and over-powerful compared to a standard PC classes as to give the player of said Ninja or Samurai an unfair advantage over the rest of the members of the party. Or they see a monk who gets "something cool" for their character at every level. Their bard or ranger for example, may not. I personally tend to fall more towards category 3. I don't mind ninja's and samurai in an oriental adventures themed setting or as part of a crossover campaign. I have written a lot of monk related adventures and story hooks too, so I like monks in my campaigns! I do think that the issue falls more on designers have had serious problems with game balance when it comes to oriental themed characters. I think that the percieved imbalance of oriental themed characters detracts from GM's desire to allow them into their campaign world. (It's like hating gnomes and halflings). Bad balance often leads to bad experiences and feelings of bad blood. That design (im)balance goes all the way back to the AD&D oriental adventures handbook. If the oriental themed characters and character classes were somehow more fluidly balanced in comparison to other "core classes" they may very well find more acceptance amongst that sect of haters everyone keeps talking about. Thanks for your time.Case</blockquote>

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