D&D 3.x Worried about 4E replacing 3E? Worry about 3E replacing 2E instead!

[MerricB]

I just found this fun quote from Bill Slavicsek, back from the days just before 3E was released:

A third edition of Dungeons & Dragons has been in the planning stages since shortly after the 2nd Edition was released. The process really got going about five years ago when Steve Winter, AD&D creative director at the time, started holding seminars at Gen Con to ask fans what we should and shouldn't change if and when we do a 3rd Edition. Internal discussions became more serious shortly before the acquisition of TSR by Wizards of the Coast. Then, when we relocated to Washington and I took over the division, I set the wheels in motion to make the new edition a real product. Peter Adkison, our CEO, was really behind the idea and even stepped forward to help direct this important project. His input and vision was vital to the creation of the new game.

Hmm... sound familiar to anything you've heard recently?

Cheers!

 

[Belen]

Maybe I missed that story. Care to educate us poor slobs?

 

[francisca]

I just found this fun quote from Bill Slavicsek, back from the days just before 3E was released:

A third edition of Dungeons & Dragons has been in the planning stages since shortly after the 2nd Edition was released. The process really got going about five years ago when Steve Winter, AD&D creative director at the time, started holding seminars at Gen Con to ask fans what we should and shouldn't change if and when we do a 3rd Edition. Internal discussions became more serious shortly before the acquisition of TSR by Wizards of the Coast. Then, when we relocated to Washington and I took over the division, I set the wheels in motion to make the new edition a real product. Peter Adkison, our CEO, was really behind the idea and even stepped forward to help direct this important project. His input and vision was vital to the creation of the new game.

Hmm... sound familiar to anything you've heard recently?

Cheers!

(shrugs)

Well, I'm sure the skeleton of 4E is already laid out. And if not, they have the questions together they need to answer before proceeding. It's good systems design practice.

I wonder what "shortly after the 2nd edition was released" means. Six months? 2-3 years? Maybe the skills and powers, etc.. was a trial of ideas, much like I suspect Unearthed Arcana for 3.5 is. I missed all of 2E, so I am in no position to judge.

So, they're probably planning 4E, I wonder who will aquire them before 4E comes out

Oh, and I'm not worried about 4E replacing anything. Much like 3E was a wholly different game to me than previous editions, I expect 4E to be the same way. It will just be another iteration of D&D.

 

[Ranger REG]

I just found this fun quote from Bill Slavicsek, back from the days just before 3E was released:

A third edition of Dungeons & Dragons has been in the planning stages since shortly after the 2nd Edition was released. The process really got going about five years ago when Steve...

When did he made the statement? I'm trying to establish a timeline based on the statement above. (5 years ago from when?)

 

[MerricB]

Early to Mid 2000. The quote is on the Wizards webpage somewhere. (You should be able to find it with google)

Cheers!

 

[Ranger REG]

2000? So that means they begin 3e pre-development on 1995, which is about the same time they released 2nd Edition Revised (the "black books"). Also the same time TSR started spiraling into near-oblivion.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[MerricB]

That sounds about right. Of course, the 3E they were considering wasn't our 3E.

I'm sure that in 1991 and 1992 there were people at TSR thinking about AD&D 3rd Edition. Not in the sense of "we're releasing it next year", but in looking at how the game was developing through the supplements and how that would impact the next edition of the core rules.

If one looks at the history of D&D:

1974: oD&D is released

1974-78: Various supplements drastically expanding the game

1978/79: AD&D puts the best parts of the supplements into the core game and makes a (mainly) coherent package of it.

1980-1988: More supplements, although the main ones that influenced the development of the game were the post-Gygax ones (DSG, WSG).

1989: AD&D 2nd Edition puts the "best" of the supplements into the core rules and makes a (mainly) coherent package of it.

1990-1994: A great number of supplements which alter parts of the game dramatically from the original idea. (Kits, extra uses for Proficiencies, etc.)

1995: AD&D 2E Player's Option - a 3rd edition that isn't a 3rd edition. It takes ideas from the supplements and makes a more coherent package of them, whilst introducing new stuff.

1996-1997: The downfall of TSR, the acquisition by Wizards.

1997-1999: Work begins on "our" 3E. The design is influenced by what came before and some radical new stuff (for D&D). The changes to Combat have been foreshadowed in Combat & Tactics, the changes to classes in the other two Player's Option books and the Complete series - the idea of lots of meaningful choices for players has a severe impact on the game.

2000: 3E is released!

2000-2003: Lots of supplements from both WotC and the other d20 System publishers. During this time, various assumptions about 3E begin to fail. Prestige classes, originally envisioned as a DM tool for individualising their campaigns by providing special classes for Organisations, have a much, much broader role. As Monsters get used more by DMs and players, the flaws in the monster creation and advancement system also come out, and problems with weapon sizes likewise.

2003: 3.5E is released, fixing the more apparent flaws of 3E. (And introducing new ones, what did you expect? )

2004: Unearthed Arcana, or "the bits we wanted to put in 3.5E, but it wasn't a new edition" is released, and the process of developing the game continues. (I love UA, btw. We were using several of the new rules in the game on Sunday, and they really improved our game.)

Cheers!

 

[Li Shenron]

An early 4th edition wouldn't mark the same kind of step between AD&D2 and D&D3 IMHO. It would rather be another minor adjustment as 3.5 was, plus probably a move forward in the direction of generalization of monsters and character (to make customization and setting-tailoring easier).

Let's not forget that 3rd edition introduced heavy differences and additions (combat, multiclassing, the skill system, feat-based abilities, prestige classes, templates...) although I am really not aware if some of these had already appeared in articles or publications during AD&D years. In any case, those were very big new things, and I don't know which others could be in a 4th edition to make it really different from the 3rd... without running the risk of being too much for the majority of the players.

 

[MerricB]

Well, I'd have to say...

* The Skill system was foreshadowed in Skills & Powers.
* Attacks of Opportunity, Miniatures + Grid were in Combat & Tactics
* Feats are an extension of the Weapon & Non-Weapon proficiency system, especially as in the Player's Option (which extended from the Complete Fighter and similar.)
* Prestige Classes hark back to the Bard and Thief-Acrobat of 1E, though greatly enhanced.

Cheers!

 

[Li Shenron]

Well, I'd have to say...

* The Skill system was foreshadowed in Skills & Powers.
* Attacks of Opportunity, Miniatures + Grid were in Combat & Tactics
* Feats are an extension of the Weapon & Non-Weapon proficiency system, especially as in the Player's Option (which extended from the Complete Fighter and similar.)
* Prestige Classes hark back to the Bard and Thief-Acrobat of 1E, though greatly enhanced.

Cheers!

Ok