Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Worst 3.5 rule from core books?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Jack Simth" data-source="post: 4500685" data-attributes="member: 29252"><p>That isn't nearly as bad as it gets.</p><p></p><p>A single Wizard-21 (generalist), working alone, uninterrupted....</p><p></p><p>1) Get your first set of ritualists.</p><p>Every day for 20 days...</p><p>a) Prepare four copies each of: Magic Circle Against Law (3rd), Dimensional Anchor (4th), Dismissal (5th), Planar Binding (6th), Quickened Dispel Magic (7th), Moment of Prescience (8th); this leaves you with your 1st, 2nd, 9th, and bonus spell slots for personal defence.</p><p>b) Planar Bind 4 Couatls (with their saves, you've got a 95% chance of Calling and trapping them; applying Moment of Prescience to the opposed charisma check to negotiate, and you've got a 95% of binding them to your service) to aid you in all the spells you cast over the next 20 days. You get approximately 90% success rate on these Callings.</p><p>c) Rest up to recover spells</p><p>Now, statistically, at the 20-day mark, you'll have 20*4*0.90=72 Couatls in your service. If we want a margin of safety, we say 80% of them stick around, for 64 Couatls.</p><p>We maintain this for a while, to keep the supply of Couatls up. After all, each one casts as a Sorcerer-9 (4th level spell slots, for -7 to a Spellcraft DC for an Epic spell; we have a -448 spellcraft modifier this way).</p><p>2) Get your permanent set of ritualists</p><p>a) Craft a DC 0 Epic spell (no gp, xp, or time cost to research) to Permanently (*5) Summon (base DC 14 for CR 2 Outsider) Planetars (CR 16, so +14 CR over 2, so +28 DC); one Planetar, Permanently Summoned, is thus a base Spellcraft DC of 5*(14+28)=210 - we can be Summoning Two of them initially (or can start summoning them after a ten-day warmup). If you max out Spellcraft and Kn(Arcana), You have two Epic spell slots at this level - and Couatl's have more than two 4th level spell slots each day, so this is fine. You are now picking up four Planetars each day - and each Planetar casts as a Cleric-17 - which means two 9th level spell slots (-17 mitigation per Planetar, twice per day). After three days of this (day 23), you now have 12 Planetars (9th level spells) and 64 Couatls (4th level spells) for -652 mitigation... Permanently Summoning three Planetars at a time is DC 630. We now research another DC 0 Epic spell to do so (requiring 12 9th level spell slots, and 64 4th level spell slots). This takes no time, no xp, and no gp. So on day 24, you're Permanently Summoning 3 Planetars at a time, twice per day, for six planetars per day. At the end of day 25, you now have 24 Planetars and 64 Couatls, for 856 in mitigation... which is good for four Planetars per casting, so research another spell, and get 8 Planetars a day. At the end of day 27, you now have 40 Planetars and 64 Couatls, for -1,128 in mitigation - enough for five planetars a casting, for 10 a day. At the end of day 28, you have 50 Planetars and 64 Couatls, for -1,298 in mitigation - enough for 6 Planetars/casting, and 12/day. At the end of day 29, you have 62 Planetars and 64 Couatls, for -1,502 in mitigation - enough for 7 Planetars per casting, and 14 per day. At the end of day 30, you have 76 Planetars and 64 Couatls, for 1,740 in mitigation - enough for 8 Planetars per casting and thus 16 per day.</p><p></p><p>This is exponential growth. Every 12 (and 1/3rd, roughly) Planetars gives you space for another planetar per casting, for two more planetars per day. You can use this method to get arbitrarily high DC's in surprisingly short timeframes. A little fun with spreadsheets, and at day 60, you've got 8668 Permanently Summoned Planetars (and 64 Called Couatls, but that's change at this point - still, my calculations include them) for more than 147,804</p><p> in mitigation by spell slots. At day 90, that's 783,338 Permanently Summoned Planetars, and 13,317,194 in Mitigation. At day 120, that's 70,644,176 Permanently Summoned Planetars, and 1,200,951,440 in Mitigation. At day 365, you're looking at approximately 6.54*10^23 Permanently Summoned Planetars, and approximately 1.11*10^25 in mitigation. </p><p></p><p>And that's just a generalist wizard-20, with Quicken Spell and Epic Spellcasting.</p><p></p><p>Yeah, it needs a lot of DM oversight.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jack Simth, post: 4500685, member: 29252"] That isn't nearly as bad as it gets. A single Wizard-21 (generalist), working alone, uninterrupted.... 1) Get your first set of ritualists. Every day for 20 days... a) Prepare four copies each of: Magic Circle Against Law (3rd), Dimensional Anchor (4th), Dismissal (5th), Planar Binding (6th), Quickened Dispel Magic (7th), Moment of Prescience (8th); this leaves you with your 1st, 2nd, 9th, and bonus spell slots for personal defence. b) Planar Bind 4 Couatls (with their saves, you've got a 95% chance of Calling and trapping them; applying Moment of Prescience to the opposed charisma check to negotiate, and you've got a 95% of binding them to your service) to aid you in all the spells you cast over the next 20 days. You get approximately 90% success rate on these Callings. c) Rest up to recover spells Now, statistically, at the 20-day mark, you'll have 20*4*0.90=72 Couatls in your service. If we want a margin of safety, we say 80% of them stick around, for 64 Couatls. We maintain this for a while, to keep the supply of Couatls up. After all, each one casts as a Sorcerer-9 (4th level spell slots, for -7 to a Spellcraft DC for an Epic spell; we have a -448 spellcraft modifier this way). 2) Get your permanent set of ritualists a) Craft a DC 0 Epic spell (no gp, xp, or time cost to research) to Permanently (*5) Summon (base DC 14 for CR 2 Outsider) Planetars (CR 16, so +14 CR over 2, so +28 DC); one Planetar, Permanently Summoned, is thus a base Spellcraft DC of 5*(14+28)=210 - we can be Summoning Two of them initially (or can start summoning them after a ten-day warmup). If you max out Spellcraft and Kn(Arcana), You have two Epic spell slots at this level - and Couatl's have more than two 4th level spell slots each day, so this is fine. You are now picking up four Planetars each day - and each Planetar casts as a Cleric-17 - which means two 9th level spell slots (-17 mitigation per Planetar, twice per day). After three days of this (day 23), you now have 12 Planetars (9th level spells) and 64 Couatls (4th level spells) for -652 mitigation... Permanently Summoning three Planetars at a time is DC 630. We now research another DC 0 Epic spell to do so (requiring 12 9th level spell slots, and 64 4th level spell slots). This takes no time, no xp, and no gp. So on day 24, you're Permanently Summoning 3 Planetars at a time, twice per day, for six planetars per day. At the end of day 25, you now have 24 Planetars and 64 Couatls, for 856 in mitigation... which is good for four Planetars per casting, so research another spell, and get 8 Planetars a day. At the end of day 27, you now have 40 Planetars and 64 Couatls, for -1,128 in mitigation - enough for five planetars a casting, for 10 a day. At the end of day 28, you have 50 Planetars and 64 Couatls, for -1,298 in mitigation - enough for 6 Planetars/casting, and 12/day. At the end of day 29, you have 62 Planetars and 64 Couatls, for -1,502 in mitigation - enough for 7 Planetars per casting, and 14 per day. At the end of day 30, you have 76 Planetars and 64 Couatls, for 1,740 in mitigation - enough for 8 Planetars per casting and thus 16 per day. This is exponential growth. Every 12 (and 1/3rd, roughly) Planetars gives you space for another planetar per casting, for two more planetars per day. You can use this method to get arbitrarily high DC's in surprisingly short timeframes. A little fun with spreadsheets, and at day 60, you've got 8668 Permanently Summoned Planetars (and 64 Called Couatls, but that's change at this point - still, my calculations include them) for more than 147,804 in mitigation by spell slots. At day 90, that's 783,338 Permanently Summoned Planetars, and 13,317,194 in Mitigation. At day 120, that's 70,644,176 Permanently Summoned Planetars, and 1,200,951,440 in Mitigation. At day 365, you're looking at approximately 6.54*10^23 Permanently Summoned Planetars, and approximately 1.11*10^25 in mitigation. And that's just a generalist wizard-20, with Quicken Spell and Epic Spellcasting. Yeah, it needs a lot of DM oversight. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Worst 3.5 rule from core books?
Top