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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Worst Monsters in 4e
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<blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5223150" data-attributes="member: 78116"><p>It's a combination approach, you need to fix broken elements and bring monsters up. Monsters were actually way behind even with those nerfs and healers lore getting nerfed was - in the end - probably deserved. It still works extremely well on surge based healing and Wizards have decided to put a lot of a stop on non-surge based healing. I think that's pretty reasonable for the most part and is working out extremely well - powers like Font of Life aren't automatic "Nobody can ever die ever lol" powers anymore. This is a good thing.</p><p></p><p>But returning to the point MM3 creatures are now performing as paragon and epic monsters <em>should perform</em>. They haven't been boosted from okay against the party to "good", they've been boosted from completely and utterly useless at challenging the party to being challenging. The nerfs have just bought everything down to an expected line and this is a good thing.</p><p></p><p>I have a paragon and an epic game going right now. The effect has been fantastic, I can actually design encounters without torturous EL + 4 or higher grindy, boring combats that take 3 hours. I for one will celebrate the death of these encounters and dance upon their grave.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would have agreed with you about epic a while ago, but actually I am finding its working brilliantly right now. The monster design in MM3 has finally caught up to the realization that <em>epic PCs are actually pretty powerful!</em> I really suggest playing epic for a while in a post MM3 world - it's a very different and very fun experience.</p><p></p><p>Like people can go on and on about maths, but the monsters <em>design</em> is better. Better designed monsters with more interesting powers is the true success here.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, my understanding is that the monster vault has a lot of zombies, dragons and other classic monsters.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aegeri, post: 5223150, member: 78116"] It's a combination approach, you need to fix broken elements and bring monsters up. Monsters were actually way behind even with those nerfs and healers lore getting nerfed was - in the end - probably deserved. It still works extremely well on surge based healing and Wizards have decided to put a lot of a stop on non-surge based healing. I think that's pretty reasonable for the most part and is working out extremely well - powers like Font of Life aren't automatic "Nobody can ever die ever lol" powers anymore. This is a good thing. But returning to the point MM3 creatures are now performing as paragon and epic monsters [i]should perform[/i]. They haven't been boosted from okay against the party to "good", they've been boosted from completely and utterly useless at challenging the party to being challenging. The nerfs have just bought everything down to an expected line and this is a good thing. I have a paragon and an epic game going right now. The effect has been fantastic, I can actually design encounters without torturous EL + 4 or higher grindy, boring combats that take 3 hours. I for one will celebrate the death of these encounters and dance upon their grave. I would have agreed with you about epic a while ago, but actually I am finding its working brilliantly right now. The monster design in MM3 has finally caught up to the realization that [i]epic PCs are actually pretty powerful![/i] I really suggest playing epic for a while in a post MM3 world - it's a very different and very fun experience. Like people can go on and on about maths, but the monsters [i]design[/i] is better. Better designed monsters with more interesting powers is the true success here. Yes, my understanding is that the monster vault has a lot of zombies, dragons and other classic monsters. [/QUOTE]
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