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<blockquote data-quote="Particle_Man" data-source="post: 3196348" data-attributes="member: 892">Unless you lose initiative, of course.&nbsp; Or get dispel magic cast on you (remember, your caster level SUCKS).&nbsp; Or are out of spells because you have so few a day and have been casting them &quot;all the time&quot; as you say.My point is that wizards and clerics get the spells early enough that they can use them when they don't yet have the magic items.&nbsp; By the time a hexblade gets these spells, the magic items should be relatively easy to make, buy or find unless you are specifically going for a &quot;magic items are rare&quot; campaign.Note that it would be far more useful to curse the opponent and then have your cleric/druid/wizard/sorceror/other full caster buddy cast higher-level spells with MUCH better save DCs (indeed this &quot;anti-bard&quot; ability of the Hexblades is one of the things I actually like about it).&nbsp; The Hexblade's own &quot;save or else&quot; spells pale in comparison, even with the bonus feats, compared to your full caster companions.&nbsp;&nbsp; Unless the enemy has SR in which case...&quot;very not happening, because I have a crappy caster level&quot;.1) The penalty is -2 until 7th level and -4 until 19th(!) level.&nbsp; So suddenly it got less scary.2) Apparently Bestow Curse is either not scary to you?&nbsp; Or are Warlocks beyond your imagination?&nbsp; Because Warlocks can Bestow Curse at will, if they choose this invocation, starting at 6th level for a -4 penalty (1 level before the Hexblade, who at this point can do a massive 2 curses a day).&nbsp; Furthermore, the Warlock can try to curse the same person again if the person made their will save last round.&nbsp; The Hexblade is down to &quot;warrior in light armor&quot; status if his opponent makes their wills save, because they don't get a second chance to hex the guy (and have few hexes in any case).&nbsp; A cleric with a wisdom bonus of +3 can cast the spell twice a day at 5th level (again, at the same person if necessary).&nbsp; And this is meant to be the signature ability of the Hexblade?&nbsp; They are not even the best at it, either in frequency or (until 19th level) in penalty level.&nbsp; It is nice that it beats SR and that it is a free action, but that is not enough to make it the reason we call the guy a Hex-blade.Solid is a relative term, apparently.&nbsp; I don't mind playing a Hexblade, but they are definitely weak.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Particle_Man, post: 3196348, member: 892"] Unless you lose initiative, of course. Or get dispel magic cast on you (remember, your caster level SUCKS). Or are out of spells because you have so few a day and have been casting them "all the time" as you say. My point is that wizards and clerics get the spells early enough that they can use them when they don't yet have the magic items. By the time a hexblade gets these spells, the magic items should be relatively easy to make, buy or find unless you are specifically going for a "magic items are rare" campaign. Note that it would be far more useful to curse the opponent and then have your cleric/druid/wizard/sorceror/other full caster buddy cast higher-level spells with MUCH better save DCs (indeed this "anti-bard" ability of the Hexblades is one of the things I actually like about it). The Hexblade's own "save or else" spells pale in comparison, even with the bonus feats, compared to your full caster companions. Unless the enemy has SR in which case..."very not happening, because I have a crappy caster level". 1) The penalty is -2 until 7th level and -4 until 19th(!) level. So suddenly it got less scary. 2) Apparently Bestow Curse is either not scary to you? Or are Warlocks beyond your imagination? Because Warlocks can Bestow Curse at will, if they choose this invocation, starting at 6th level for a -4 penalty (1 level before the Hexblade, who at this point can do a massive 2 curses a day). Furthermore, the Warlock can try to curse the same person again if the person made their will save last round. The Hexblade is down to "warrior in light armor" status if his opponent makes their wills save, because they don't get a second chance to hex the guy (and have few hexes in any case). A cleric with a wisdom bonus of +3 can cast the spell twice a day at 5th level (again, at the same person if necessary). And this is meant to be the signature ability of the Hexblade? They are not even the best at it, either in frequency or (until 19th level) in penalty level. It is nice that it beats SR and that it is a free action, but that is not enough to make it the reason we call the guy a Hex-blade. Solid is a relative term, apparently. I don't mind playing a Hexblade, but they are definitely weak. [/QUOTE]

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