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<blockquote data-quote="Eosin the Red" data-source="post: 119300" data-attributes="member: 168">To echo what some of the other folks have said, I am baffled at seeing Champions on this page? It blows me away. I have looked to see if there was some commonality and it seems to me that many of the folks who mention Champions as the worst system, have frequently mentioned a love of fast and loose systems (WEG, BESM, Storyteller). Most of us who love Champions (or GURPs or RM) seemed more likely to list the loose systems as our least favorite. Mine being WEG.Some of the comments just do not hold much water. My first battle in D&amp;D ran several hours, mainly cause we did not understand the rules. Many of us diehard champions fans can say with a strait face that combat takes roughly the same amount of time as 3E. When you know the rules it flows smoothly.Not defending the complexity - that is what makes the system good. I think if those same people who complain about making characters up had tried to make up a Fiendish-lycanthrope-wizard-archmage-chosen of mystra-nightsong enchanter-half dragon as their 1st 3E character, they would have found that experience to also be disheartening.The first point seems the most telling - some like their games loose, some prefer them to be geared for exact calculation of ability. Niether way is better. It was just shocking to see Champions taking it on the nose.All of this of course IMO, YMMV, and any other appendige to indicate we are all entitled to an opionion. Which BTW, I can say are not like some parts of the anatomy. I have seen with my own eyes folks who did not have said part of anatomy, or whos anatomy had been surgically removed. SO, opinions are even more common that specific parts of anotomy, at least on the net.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Eosin the Red, post: 119300, member: 168"] To echo what some of the other folks have said, I am baffled at seeing Champions on this page? It blows me away. I have looked to see if there was some commonality and it seems to me that many of the folks who mention Champions as the worst system, have frequently mentioned a love of fast and loose systems (WEG, BESM, Storyteller). Most of us who love Champions (or GURPs or RM) seemed more likely to list the loose systems as our least favorite. Mine being WEG. Some of the comments just do not hold much water. My first battle in D&D ran several hours, mainly cause we did not understand the rules. Many of us diehard champions fans can say with a strait face that combat takes roughly the same amount of time as 3E. When you know the rules it flows smoothly. Not defending the complexity - that is what makes the system good. I think if those same people who complain about making characters up had tried to make up a Fiendish-lycanthrope-wizard-archmage-chosen of mystra-nightsong enchanter-half dragon as their 1st 3E character, they would have found that experience to also be disheartening. The first point seems the most telling - some like their games loose, some prefer them to be geared for exact calculation of ability. Niether way is better. It was just shocking to see Champions taking it on the nose. All of this of course IMO, YMMV, and any other appendige to indicate we are all entitled to an opionion. Which BTW, I can say are not like some parts of the anatomy. I have seen with my own eyes folks who did not have said part of anatomy, or whos anatomy had been surgically removed. SO, opinions are even more common that specific parts of anotomy, at least on the net. [/QUOTE]

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