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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Windjammer" data-source="post: 4842240" data-attributes="member: 60075">4E is a perfect system for crunch bloat, and WotC' handling of it so far showcases just how capable they are in that region. TONS of new crunch have appeared since 4E's arrival, especially considering the output in DDI (which the "only 9 books a year?" crowd seems oblivious to), and the relative amount of repeating stuff that's there already is miniscule compared to what WotC did during 3.5 when reprinting stuff over and over again was par of the course.(Interjection: I'm talking about rules elements here. WotC has no problem to reprint 4E flair/fluff-elements several times over. Example: Sigil's description in 4E Manual of Planes, itself a reprint from 3.5 Planar Handbook, is reprinted in the E2 module and for my money they're going to reprint most, if not all of it, in 4E DMG 2 too.)The genius of 4E bloat is that instead of overshooting the initial (core series 1) mark prematurely with the first series of supplements (3.0, anyone?), this time they go for miniscule increments to generate a product line that's viable for a long time to come. So if you compare some lvl 1 at-wills or daily's for fighters and wizards in PHB 1 with the Power Source splats, you'll see that WotC simply COPIED these entries and added a MINOR goodie. And that's all good, because people will want to get the slightly better version without feeling at any point that they've purchased a broken game element (which they haven't).That's the first thing. The second thing is that the standardization of class mechanics across the board means that WotC can sell a single mechanical innovation ten times over. If you look at Martial Power, for instance, you'll see a late heroic tier daily that reads "Hit: 2[W]+primary attribute modifier, and: if you've spent all your encounter powers already, you regain one of them". This power reappears for several classes, and I wouldn't be surprised if it reappaers in Arcane Power (which I don't own) and Divine Power (which isn't out yet). This economic variety of bloat is impossible to achieve in a RPG where every class is designed to be a game unto itself. So there. Beneath the surface a lot of the bloat is really just a very solid exercise in adding very little many times over. And it's brilliant. For anyone fixated on playing a single class - like myself, favouring rogues - it means I can buy one pack of Power Cards each year (PHB 1, Martial Power, Martial Power 2, Martial Power 3...) for my respective class. It's cleverly designed and cleverly packaged. If, on the other hand, you aren't into one class in particular, and aren't that interested in seeing little goodies added to extant material here or there then this business model isn't doing much for you. But then, I daresay, most RPG supplements out there which are based on such bloat aren't really for you. That's what "core only" games are for, and there's a good many people who enjoy them. So there. I don't think there's a bloat "problem" with 4E. What's important is knowing what bloat in 4E is and then deciding if that's for you or not. See, I didn't even bother to buy Arcane Vault 1 when I know that the soon-to-be-released Arcane Vault 2 will contain more of the same, except better. And better flair too, probably - magic Item Sets!</blockquote>

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