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<blockquote data-quote="Tigris" data-source="post: 9810503" data-attributes="member: 7043270"><p>No actually the "<strong>Pathfinder outsold D&D</strong>" just <strong>never happened</strong>: <a href="https://alphastream.org/index.php/2023/07/08/pathfinder-never-outsold-4e-dd-icymi/" target="_blank">Pathfinder Never Outsold 4E D&D (ICYMI)</a> this is known since 2021 the survey on which this was based was only looking at (some) US hobbyshops as far as I understand which does not reflect total sales.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Also as of now (with the 2013 data) we even have another proof for this. D&D had 15.5 million revenue in 2013 (without PDF sales as it looks like).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Paizo mentioned in a report in 2012 that they had 11.2 revenue. (Mention of this here: <a href="https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q4in&page=last?So-DD-Next-looks-interesting-Is-it" target="_blank">paizo.com - Forums: 4th Edition: So D&D Next looks interesting. Is it?</a> ) And even with a 30% growth as it had the years before, that would only have been 14.5 millions in total revenue, which was not all Pathfinder. (They still had many D&D 3.5 adventure paths etc.)</p><p></p><p>If we look at the Optimistic growth from 2012 till 2024 it would be even far less. In that time revenue increased from 11.2 millions to 36.9 millions (in the optimistic estimation: <a href="https://growjo.com/company/Paizo" target="_blank">Paizo: Revenue, Competitors, Alternatives</a> another company only predicted 19 millions in 2023) this would be a growth rate of 9.6% so that would only be 12.3 millions in 2013.</p><p></p><p>My guess is the truth lies somewhere between these 2 numbers, but both are still below D&D revenue even in the year 2013 where not a single D&D book was released.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Then maybe you should read the rest because "broke expectations" does not mean it had really high sales (especially not compared to initial 4E sales).</p><p></p><p>D&D when it was still 4e was considered a core brand, with an expectation of 50+ millions a year (see first post in this thread). When 5e released it was no longer the case (thats why they were happy with the 5e sales results even though D&D sales were only 29 millions). D&D during the 5e period was on money saving mode. (With at some point only 1 person officially still working on D&D and later after 5e released there where still only 25 according to Mike Mearls). So to take no unnecessarily risks, the initial planned print run of 5e was just low.</p><p></p><p>And as also mentioned in the post above 4e did need to have several print runs during PREORDER already.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tigris, post: 9810503, member: 7043270"] No actually the "[B]Pathfinder outsold D&D[/B]" just [B]never happened[/B]: [URL='https://alphastream.org/index.php/2023/07/08/pathfinder-never-outsold-4e-dd-icymi/']Pathfinder Never Outsold 4E D&D (ICYMI)[/URL] this is known since 2021 the survey on which this was based was only looking at (some) US hobbyshops as far as I understand which does not reflect total sales. Also as of now (with the 2013 data) we even have another proof for this. D&D had 15.5 million revenue in 2013 (without PDF sales as it looks like). Paizo mentioned in a report in 2012 that they had 11.2 revenue. (Mention of this here: [URL='https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q4in&page=last?So-DD-Next-looks-interesting-Is-it']paizo.com - Forums: 4th Edition: So D&D Next looks interesting. Is it?[/URL] ) And even with a 30% growth as it had the years before, that would only have been 14.5 millions in total revenue, which was not all Pathfinder. (They still had many D&D 3.5 adventure paths etc.) If we look at the Optimistic growth from 2012 till 2024 it would be even far less. In that time revenue increased from 11.2 millions to 36.9 millions (in the optimistic estimation: [URL='https://growjo.com/company/Paizo']Paizo: Revenue, Competitors, Alternatives[/URL] another company only predicted 19 millions in 2023) this would be a growth rate of 9.6% so that would only be 12.3 millions in 2013. My guess is the truth lies somewhere between these 2 numbers, but both are still below D&D revenue even in the year 2013 where not a single D&D book was released. Then maybe you should read the rest because "broke expectations" does not mean it had really high sales (especially not compared to initial 4E sales). D&D when it was still 4e was considered a core brand, with an expectation of 50+ millions a year (see first post in this thread). When 5e released it was no longer the case (thats why they were happy with the 5e sales results even though D&D sales were only 29 millions). D&D during the 5e period was on money saving mode. (With at some point only 1 person officially still working on D&D and later after 5e released there where still only 25 according to Mike Mearls). So to take no unnecessarily risks, the initial planned print run of 5e was just low. And as also mentioned in the post above 4e did need to have several print runs during PREORDER already. [/QUOTE]
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