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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Philosopher" data-source="post: 5046267" data-attributes="member: 76803">Yes, to err is human. But errors remain errors.Look, I understand all of this. As I said, the position you hold seems to be a reasonable one. I was not criticizing your position, I was criticizing the argument you made about preconceptions. Do you understand the difference?True, but this wasn't the best example, then. I've run games in which the players' preconceptions come up in the middle of a session. They engage a course of action that reflects those preconceptions. I point this out to them, let them readjust their decisions, and we move on. That's all it takes. It's really not that big of a deal.Okay, let's stop for a moment here. I'm not disagreeing with the position you hold, as I stated above. But the reasons you give here don't work.Let's say it's true that if I want to go against lots of established flavor, I need to write up a 20 page document in order to let the players know what to expect in my campaign. If the players really need all that information before we can start playing, then what happens if there is no flavor? I'd have to give them everything myself, wouldn't I? That would go beyond your hypothetical 20 pages.Now, of course, this is ludicrous. As we both know, I don't need to give that much information just to start a campaign (although I could if I wanted to). Rather, I can just give them a basic overview, and fill them in as we play the campaign. But if that's true, then the starting point (the claim you make at the start of the previous paragraph) is not true. I don't need to write up pages and pages of flavor. Just as I can tell players, "Don't assume that things are the same as Lord of the Rings," I can also tell my players, "Don't assume that things are always the same as what's in the core books. If at some point in the campaign, you (as the player) makes an assumption that your character would know to be false, I'll point it out." Simple.I repeat, this is not a challenge to your claim about a "happy medium". Of course different people have different preferences about that. It's a challenge to your argument that player preconceptions is a reason to include less flavor. Maybe less flavor is better, I'm just saying that this argument does not establish that.Hyperbole is making an exaggerated claim. I was not exaggerating. I was drawing an implication, as I've explained above. I am not saying that you believe something you didn't state, and I'm not saying that you assumed something you didn't state. I'm saying that if you follow the logic of what you did state, you end up with a ludicrous conclusion. Therefore, what you stated (about preconceptions, not about anything else) is faulty.Further, I really don't know why you keep coming back to this argument. If you really believe that it's all about personal preference, why do you keep trying to show that less flavor is better?Of course they are. But do you believe they're fully rational pure money-makers that exist in a completely context-free environment? That they're in business to make money can be taken for granted. What goes on in any business is rather complex; they are many factors, from the profit motive to intra-company politics, that influence what a company does. All I was saying is that tossing out "market research" does not mean we can't critique what they do (or don't do).</blockquote>

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