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<blockquote data-quote="GreyICE" data-source="post: 6045419" data-attributes="member: 6684526"><p>Except that it's not part of the fighter concept at all since 1E. </p><p></p><p>Explain how the 3E fighter is a warlord in any way. Does he inspire the people next to him to do better? No, that's what a cleric does with spells like Prayer, Mass Shield of Faith, and Recitation. Does he lead allies into battle and enable them to rain down attacks upon their enemies? No, that's what Wizards do with Haste, and Druids do with Mass Snake's Swiftness. Does he inspire allies to remain in the fight and press onward? Nope, Cleric again. </p><p></p><p>There's literally no way the fighter is similar to a warlord. People keep saying that the Warlord was part of the Fighter class, but that's just plain false. There was no Warlord class prior to 4E, and that was a huge gaping oversight.</p><p></p><p>You cannot build a leader-fighter except maybe using the ridiculously broken feat Leadership (that any class can take). The best he can do is occasionally give AC bonuses to adjacent allies with his shield, with the right feat. Compare it to Recitation for a second, and then laugh hysterically.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you really think that in a class based system the ideal is to have a class that is so flexible that it can cover every archtype from an archer to a front line brawler to a cunning master strategist to a dashing pirate to a heavily armored crusader, then I have to wonder if you understand the point of a class system. It's really not to create incredibly broad, sprawling archtypes that can do anything (that's what classless systems do). </p><p></p><p>There's a reason the Ranger/Rogue/Fighter/Warlord are mechanically distinct. There's a reason they want the Sorcerer/Wizard/Warlock to spread around the spell loving. There's good reasons to have Clerics and Druids have a more limited number of spells than a Wizard in Next. </p><p></p><p>Limitations create distinction. Big sprawling messes of classes create terrible things. Usually either a ridiculously overpowered class (see: 3E Druid) or a sprawling mess that can be good with insane levels of optimization, but without literally absurd levels of optimization falls apart rapidly (see: 3E Warlock, a class that required a PrC, specific gear/1 level dip in Binder, specific rule interpretation, or an insane charop ridiculousness to be viable, or Factotem, which seems designed with CharOp in mind).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GreyICE, post: 6045419, member: 6684526"] Except that it's not part of the fighter concept at all since 1E. Explain how the 3E fighter is a warlord in any way. Does he inspire the people next to him to do better? No, that's what a cleric does with spells like Prayer, Mass Shield of Faith, and Recitation. Does he lead allies into battle and enable them to rain down attacks upon their enemies? No, that's what Wizards do with Haste, and Druids do with Mass Snake's Swiftness. Does he inspire allies to remain in the fight and press onward? Nope, Cleric again. There's literally no way the fighter is similar to a warlord. People keep saying that the Warlord was part of the Fighter class, but that's just plain false. There was no Warlord class prior to 4E, and that was a huge gaping oversight. You cannot build a leader-fighter except maybe using the ridiculously broken feat Leadership (that any class can take). The best he can do is occasionally give AC bonuses to adjacent allies with his shield, with the right feat. Compare it to Recitation for a second, and then laugh hysterically. If you really think that in a class based system the ideal is to have a class that is so flexible that it can cover every archtype from an archer to a front line brawler to a cunning master strategist to a dashing pirate to a heavily armored crusader, then I have to wonder if you understand the point of a class system. It's really not to create incredibly broad, sprawling archtypes that can do anything (that's what classless systems do). There's a reason the Ranger/Rogue/Fighter/Warlord are mechanically distinct. There's a reason they want the Sorcerer/Wizard/Warlock to spread around the spell loving. There's good reasons to have Clerics and Druids have a more limited number of spells than a Wizard in Next. Limitations create distinction. Big sprawling messes of classes create terrible things. Usually either a ridiculously overpowered class (see: 3E Druid) or a sprawling mess that can be good with insane levels of optimization, but without literally absurd levels of optimization falls apart rapidly (see: 3E Warlock, a class that required a PrC, specific gear/1 level dip in Binder, specific rule interpretation, or an insane charop ridiculousness to be viable, or Factotem, which seems designed with CharOp in mind). [/QUOTE]
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