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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9328224" data-attributes="member: 87792">The question you're skating over is at what level? Level scaling matters - and at levels 1-2 I'd argue the sorcerer is the weakest class. Battlemasters are considered good (where they rank compared to Eldritch Knights, Echo Knights, and Rune Knights is open to debate) - but their &quot;glory levels&quot; are 1-6. Maneuvers are great at level 3 when you get them. But the ones you pick up at level 7 were the ones not good enough for you at level 3. Indeed the entire Battlemaster L7-10 period is kinda bad.<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">L7 gets you two maneuvers that weren't good enough for you at L3, an extra superiority dice (good - but each is less useful than the last), and a barely used ability</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">L8 gets you your third feat/ASI - two choices that weren't good enough before. But it will still be good; you're still in the top tier martial feats category. So will everyone else's but most other people get something else like a spell slot and a spell known.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">L9 is Indomitable. It sucks.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">L10 is your sixth and seventh maneuver - again they weren't good enough for levels 3 or 7. It also increases your superiority dice by one step ... which is frequently just +1 damage.</li>
</ul>The Battlemaster may very well be the strongest fighter subclass from levels 3-6 (especially if you ignore Crawford's rulings on the Echo Knight) - but by level 10 I'd put them behind any of the three Knights.The thing here is that Fireball means that the fighter isn't a &quot;pure damage dealer&quot; and doesn't have a particular strength at &quot;damage dealing&quot;. It means that they are a pure single target damage dealer, which is a whole lot smaller of a niche. The mages are better at multi-target damage.Even for single target damage against a BBEG (which is basically their specialty) the fighter is barely ahead of a full caster (or warlock) who summons after level 6.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 9328224, member: 87792"] The question you're skating over is [I]at what level?[/I] Level scaling matters - and at levels 1-2 I'd argue the sorcerer is the weakest class. Battlemasters are considered good (where they rank compared to Eldritch Knights, Echo Knights, and Rune Knights is open to debate) - but their "glory levels" are 1-6. Maneuvers are great [I]at level 3 when you get them[/I]. But the ones you pick up at level 7 were the ones not good enough for you at level 3. Indeed the entire Battlemaster L7-10 period is kinda bad. [LIST] [*]L7 gets you two maneuvers that weren't good enough for you at L3, an extra superiority dice (good - but each is less useful than the last), and a barely used ability [*]L8 gets you your third feat/ASI - two choices that weren't good enough before. But it will still be good; you're still in the top tier martial feats category. So will everyone else's but most other people get something else like a spell slot and a spell known. [*]L9 is Indomitable. It [I]sucks[/I]. [*]L10 is your sixth and seventh maneuver - again they weren't good enough for levels 3 or 7. It also increases your superiority dice by one step ... which is frequently just +1 damage. [/LIST] The Battlemaster may very well be the strongest fighter subclass from levels 3-6 (especially if you ignore Crawford's rulings on the Echo Knight) - but by level 10 I'd put them behind any of the three Knights. The thing here is that Fireball means that the fighter isn't a "pure damage dealer" and doesn't have a particular strength at "damage dealing". It means that they are a pure [I]single target[/I] damage dealer, which is a whole lot smaller of a niche. The mages are better at multi-target damage. Even for single target damage against a BBEG (which is basically their specialty) the fighter is barely ahead of a full caster (or warlock) who summons after level 6. [/QUOTE]

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