Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
wotc intro adventures conflict with their own advice
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="ourchair" data-source="post: 5367771" data-attributes="member: 85362"><p>Great topic and I've found that glaring as well.</p><p></p><p>I kind of look at it differently, I think the WotC designers who write the adventures assume that newbie DMs are super-capable of retooling the adventures they've written. </p><p></p><p>You get an inkling of that sensibility in the <em>Dungeon Delve </em>book, in which each adventure is given notes on how to expand it to a full-length adventure, but they're all 'encounter additions' that don't really explain how to make sense of how they fit in from a narrative perspective.</p><p></p><p>In other published adventures, they say you can customize or tweak these things but they pretty much leave you to your own devices on how to do that. So in a sense, they don't really contradict their own advice so much as they kind of shrug their shoulders and assume that people can figure it all out.</p><p></p><p>I think this is kind of symptomatic of the product and editing philosophy during the Heinsoo/pre-Mearls days, when the first set of products basically avoided spelling out fluff components so that players and DMs were free to make sense of everything on their own and visualize the campaign and characters any way they see fit.</p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, newbie DMs like me who came to 4th Edition also felt like we weren't being handheld enough because of that. I completely appreciate that in 4th Edition we aren't beholden to fluff that rigidly informs how the game is designed and the game world is played. </p><p></p><p>That means most of the stuff we got from WotC, becomes really grind-spammed and flavor-deficient when taken at face value, . Power source books before <em>Primal Power</em> look like ancient README files from DOS-era game patches, and adventures played out of the book as is, assume the adventurers are going to monotonously grind their way through 4-6 hours of combat.</p><p></p><p>So my theory is that adventures don't contradict the advice of 'say yes' and 'don't railroad' so much as designers couldn't be bothered to provide the tools to do that, thinking that its the DM himself or herself that would know how best to say yes and not railroad, since after all, it won't be THEM that's at the table.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ourchair, post: 5367771, member: 85362"] Great topic and I've found that glaring as well. I kind of look at it differently, I think the WotC designers who write the adventures assume that newbie DMs are super-capable of retooling the adventures they've written. You get an inkling of that sensibility in the [I]Dungeon Delve [/I]book, in which each adventure is given notes on how to expand it to a full-length adventure, but they're all 'encounter additions' that don't really explain how to make sense of how they fit in from a narrative perspective. In other published adventures, they say you can customize or tweak these things but they pretty much leave you to your own devices on how to do that. So in a sense, they don't really contradict their own advice so much as they kind of shrug their shoulders and assume that people can figure it all out. I think this is kind of symptomatic of the product and editing philosophy during the Heinsoo/pre-Mearls days, when the first set of products basically avoided spelling out fluff components so that players and DMs were free to make sense of everything on their own and visualize the campaign and characters any way they see fit. Unfortunately, newbie DMs like me who came to 4th Edition also felt like we weren't being handheld enough because of that. I completely appreciate that in 4th Edition we aren't beholden to fluff that rigidly informs how the game is designed and the game world is played. That means most of the stuff we got from WotC, becomes really grind-spammed and flavor-deficient when taken at face value, . Power source books before [I]Primal Power[/I] look like ancient README files from DOS-era game patches, and adventures played out of the book as is, assume the adventurers are going to monotonously grind their way through 4-6 hours of combat. So my theory is that adventures don't contradict the advice of 'say yes' and 'don't railroad' so much as designers couldn't be bothered to provide the tools to do that, thinking that its the DM himself or herself that would know how best to say yes and not railroad, since after all, it won't be THEM that's at the table. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
wotc intro adventures conflict with their own advice
Top