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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DracoSuave" data-source="post: 5197717" data-attributes="member: 71571">A PDF does have distribution costs.  They are not major, but they exist.  Bandwidth isn't free, son.  Hosting isn't free, son.  This things you take for granted as free for both the end-user and the supplier are not, in fact, free for either.The cost isn't necessary large, but 'non-existant' isn't a word I'd use when describing what a business does. And even a negligible cost is still a cost.My point has never been that PDF distribution is bad for -small- companies.  My point is that, as it is, it is bad for a -large- company.Again, -scale- makes it a HUGE difference.Most of the people who play D&D and buy D&D don't give a crap about the fact they decided against putting out PDFs.  Their market does not care.  A -segment- of their market cares, and thinks it's more important than it actually is in the larger scheme of things.Also, Pathfinder isn't inventing new gamers.  It doesn't want to.  That's WHY it doesn't need heavy marketing.Again, it's a bad example to compare Pathfinder (a product which builds on the work Wizards did before, and on the market Wizards itself built) and D&D4.That's the one point you've decided to gloss over... Pathfinder's market is the one created by Wizards.  The relationship there is not competitive but parasitic.No one is saying that indy games cannot prosper digitally.  In fact, I'll even say that indy games are -best- distributed digitally.  Which sucks for those of us who want to be able to get a hold of physical copies at our local stores.But that's the realities of business.  Some businesses are better off working one way and others are better of working another.The fact that Wizards, being the market leader, and not relying solely on the attraction of existing gamers, must use a different marketing model than those who are not the market leader, and are relying solely on the attraction of existing gamers.... the fact those are two completely different marketing strategies?Your head is in the sand on that point.Timmy is 12 years old.  He is your future gamer.  Is he gonna learn to play D&D by advertising on enworld.org and on rpg.net?  No.  Because he doesn't go there.  Because he's NOT A GAMER YET.No, you attract him by giving him the opportunity to play, to pick up the books, and to read through them.  He needs to hold the product to buy it.  PDFs don't have the ability to look through them at the store to drum up interest.You ARE aware that's one of the reasons they put pretty art in the books, right?  It's for marketting.  So that if you grab the book in the store, you see the art, and have the imagination stirred.PDFs, on the otherhand, cannot be marketted like that.  At.  All.  No, it relies on the fact that -a lot- of customers will.  The numbers for the books Wizards put out were pretty damning.  We're not talking 50% legal here, or even 10% legal.I'm not going to sugarcoat it.  A LOT of people pirated (and still pirate) them pdfs.  It is not a small number.  The number of pdfs bought was a small number.I don't need to prove that zero people will buy the pdfs.  All I need to prove is that there's enough piracy out there that a PDF will not be able to favorably compete.  Wizards simply does not want to compete in that avenue.  At.  All.Of course the premise you claim I made is wrong, and I don't doubt that.But, then, you weren't arguing on the merits of my argument, but by some argument you claim I made, which I have just endevoured to clarify.Again, you're misrepresenting my argument.  Which all your points were.My argument was:They've handled the product well enough until now.  They've taken a dying brand in Dungeons and Dragons and through it, not only revitalized the brand, but revitalized the industry.  They did so through having their finger on the pulse of the market in a way that you cannot understand by only adopting a 'I want pdfs so I should have them' mentality.When it comes to taking a core product and marketting it successfully, they have shown time and time again they are capable of doing this, and they have shown great flexibility in adapting to the changing market.Their product lines are under continual evolution, both in how they feel, and in terms of how they are distributed, and they have a tendancy in their marketting decisions to desire to reach the customer.As well, they are no strangers to the digital format, having multiple product lines that translate over into that medium.  D&D4th edition is the ONLY rpg system that is integrated with online distribution channels.  They converted their magazines to pdf format, and even changed their layouts to accomodate the aspect ratios of most monitors for readability.So to claim they don't have their fingers on the pulse of the future is ignorant.  I don't see World of Darkness Interactive, or any similiar initiative from any other company in the business.  For all intents and purposes, Wizards is the ONLY company who is using the computer medium as more than simply a pdf distribution tool, they are using it's ability for computation to do things other than look at books.They are, in short, FAR more advanced in terms of using computer networks than you give them credit for.Not to mention, they have a history of successful marketting on a scale that you simply do not.  In terms of expertise in this field, in both computer distribution, and in general marketing, it is a more cogent argument to accept them as an expert in the field rather than yourself.AND here is the clincher.They tried it.You might have had a point had they not taken the plunge and expense to get involved in that side of distribution.  But they have, and given their expertise in the field, it would be a non-cogent argument to suggest they made a mistake simply because -I- wanted the pdfs that are no longer available.It's a simple reality of the entertainment business (and yes, Wizards is an entertainment company), whether that business be publishing, television, music, or what have you, that sometimes the juice isn't worth the squeeze.It does not matter that -somebody- wants it.  Enough people have to want it to make it worth doing.  And demand for pdfs isn't even enough... there has to be a demand for -legal- pdfs, and wizards deemed (by actually doing so) that it was not worth doing.They have expertise.  You do not.  I can understand their position on this.Does it suck for those who want legal pdfs?  Yes.  Does it suck for the pirates?  A little, they actually have to buy a scanner.Does it suck for the product line?  Ultimately, no it does not.</blockquote>

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