Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Publishing Business & Licensing
WotC Walks Back Some OGL Changes, But Not All
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Matt Thomason" data-source="post: 8896015" data-attributes="member: 6777331"><p>This is actually a tricky one to think about, and mostly comes down to how copyrightable a game is in the first place with or without the OGL.</p><p></p><p>The main reason the OGL has "allowed" retroclones is that the OGL allowed the use of certain text such as "Hit Points", the six main attributes, etc, while any differences were purely in non-copyrightable mechanics (I would actually assume anyone using the phrase "THAC0" in a retroclone to be in possible IP violation because that term is fairly unique and not granted under the OGL, but reproducing the THAC0 <em>mechanic</em> to be absolutely fine.)</p><p></p><p>For it to allow someone to create a 6e clone depends on 6e being similar enough to what has come before for the same foundations granted under the OGL'ed SRDs to be applied to 6e. Therefore, it could be argued that if WotC don't want people copying 6e, they need to make it unique enough that people can't use material they currently have the rights to use to replicate it, and not simply tweak an existing system they have already given everyone license to use (of course, this would also likely result in that system <em>not being recognizable as D&D</em> and likely fail in its purpose.) However, any new mechanics they may come up with are <em>still</em> not covered by copyright. That means for them to have a unique, unclonable, protected work they would have to come up with an extremely unique mechanic that they could actually <em>patent</em>. So the main reason the rights of these future D&D authors is not very protectable is <em>because</em> they're using so much from previous versions themselves instead of developing a new game from scratch. The question therefore becomes - what really is the moral position of borrowing from people who themselves are borrowing heavily from previous iterations? Especially in that nobody really "owns" the D&D underlying game system anyway, only the trademarks attached and the specific rulebook text, layout, and artwork.</p><p></p><p>It really all comes down to copyright law, and the fact it does not realistically protect in any way the work done by game designers (the people coming up with the mechanics in the studio, not the rulebook writers whose expression <em>is</em> protected), because I can always, OGL or no OGL, take your game and rewrite the rules to it in completely my own words (with a possible requirement to make a number of changes to game terminology such as stat names.) Again, it's important to recognise that this can be done even if the OGL never existed in the first place, so it's not really something the OGL has enabled, although it <em>has</em> made it a bit simpler - while simultaneously ensuring people waive their fair use rights to, for example, refer to Wizards trademarks. The OGL is a trade-off on both sides, and that's an important factor in this whole argument - without it, we could all just write a D&D adventure (or indeed, a complete ruleset) and slap "compatible with Dungeons & Dragons(TM)" on the front, but we would also have to be a <em>lot</em> more careful that we were making our work unique enough to not be seen as derivative of theirs (and that our compatibility notice was not prominent enough to make people believe we were selling under that trademark), and would also lose the safe harbor protection from receiving a C&D order in the mail.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Matt Thomason, post: 8896015, member: 6777331"] This is actually a tricky one to think about, and mostly comes down to how copyrightable a game is in the first place with or without the OGL. The main reason the OGL has "allowed" retroclones is that the OGL allowed the use of certain text such as "Hit Points", the six main attributes, etc, while any differences were purely in non-copyrightable mechanics (I would actually assume anyone using the phrase "THAC0" in a retroclone to be in possible IP violation because that term is fairly unique and not granted under the OGL, but reproducing the THAC0 [I]mechanic[/I] to be absolutely fine.) For it to allow someone to create a 6e clone depends on 6e being similar enough to what has come before for the same foundations granted under the OGL'ed SRDs to be applied to 6e. Therefore, it could be argued that if WotC don't want people copying 6e, they need to make it unique enough that people can't use material they currently have the rights to use to replicate it, and not simply tweak an existing system they have already given everyone license to use (of course, this would also likely result in that system [I]not being recognizable as D&D[/I] and likely fail in its purpose.) However, any new mechanics they may come up with are [I]still[/I] not covered by copyright. That means for them to have a unique, unclonable, protected work they would have to come up with an extremely unique mechanic that they could actually [I]patent[/I]. So the main reason the rights of these future D&D authors is not very protectable is [I]because[/I] they're using so much from previous versions themselves instead of developing a new game from scratch. The question therefore becomes - what really is the moral position of borrowing from people who themselves are borrowing heavily from previous iterations? Especially in that nobody really "owns" the D&D underlying game system anyway, only the trademarks attached and the specific rulebook text, layout, and artwork. It really all comes down to copyright law, and the fact it does not realistically protect in any way the work done by game designers (the people coming up with the mechanics in the studio, not the rulebook writers whose expression [I]is[/I] protected), because I can always, OGL or no OGL, take your game and rewrite the rules to it in completely my own words (with a possible requirement to make a number of changes to game terminology such as stat names.) Again, it's important to recognise that this can be done even if the OGL never existed in the first place, so it's not really something the OGL has enabled, although it [I]has[/I] made it a bit simpler - while simultaneously ensuring people waive their fair use rights to, for example, refer to Wizards trademarks. The OGL is a trade-off on both sides, and that's an important factor in this whole argument - without it, we could all just write a D&D adventure (or indeed, a complete ruleset) and slap "compatible with Dungeons & Dragons(TM)" on the front, but we would also have to be a [I]lot[/I] more careful that we were making our work unique enough to not be seen as derivative of theirs (and that our compatibility notice was not prominent enough to make people believe we were selling under that trademark), and would also lose the safe harbor protection from receiving a C&D order in the mail. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Publishing Business & Licensing
WotC Walks Back Some OGL Changes, But Not All
Top