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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
WotC's hesitation on tackling the feat tax.
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5685846" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Interestingly enough, WotC mentioned that DMs could give the players a +1 feat bonus to accuracy and to defenses as a house rule.</p><p></p><p>The question comes to mind, why would they suggest a feat bonus as opposed to just a bonus?</p><p></p><p>Is it because it auto-removes the stacking of Expertise and other feats meant to fix the issue? By doing so, it also kills a few other feats that give feat bonuses, usually conditional feat bonuses.</p><p></p><p>Because if one thinks about it, it's a math bug. It shouldn't be a feat bonus, it should just be a normal boost to accuracy and defenses, no different than the +1 every other level for merely leveling.</p><p></p><p>One quick way that WotC could fix this is to remove the +1/2 levels and make it +3/5 levels (starting at level one). This could be an optional rule in the Character Builder.</p><p></p><p>1</p><p>2 +1</p><p>3</p><p>4 +2</p><p>5 +3</p><p>6</p><p>7 +4</p><p>8</p><p>9 +5</p><p>10 +6</p><p>11</p><p>12 +7</p><p>13</p><p>14 +8</p><p>15 +9</p><p>16</p><p>17 +10</p><p>18</p><p>19 +11</p><p>20 +12</p><p>21</p><p>22 +13</p><p>23</p><p>24 +14</p><p>25 +15</p><p>26</p><p>27 +16</p><p>28</p><p>29 +17</p><p>30 +18</p><p></p><p>The inherent bonus rules for both accuracy and defenses could then change to levels 3, 8, 13, 18, 23, and 28. Throwing ability increases into the mix, it becomes (level, total bonus with revised inherent, delta compared to monsters, and core rules inherent):</p><p></p><p>[code]</p><p> 1</p><p> 2 +1 (+1)</p><p> 3 +2</p><p> 4 +3</p><p> 5 +4 (-1)</p><p> 6 +4 -1 (-1)</p><p> 7 +5 -1 (-1)</p><p> 8 +7 </p><p> 9 +8 (-1)</p><p>10 +9 (-1)</p><p>11 +9 -1 (-2)</p><p>12 +10 -1 (-1)</p><p>13 +11 -1 (-2)</p><p>14 +13 (-1)</p><p>15 +14 (-2)</p><p>16 +14 -1 (-2)</p><p>17 +15 -1 (-2)</p><p>18 +16 -1 (-2)</p><p>19 +17 -1 (-3)</p><p>20 +18 -1 (-3)</p><p>21 +19 -1 (-3) note: levels 21 through 30 might be +1 more for ability score, Epic Destiny depending</p><p>22 +20 -1 (-2)</p><p>23 +21 -1 (-3)</p><p>24 +22 -1 (-3)</p><p>25 +23 -1 (-4)</p><p>26 +23 -2 (-4)</p><p>27 +24 -2 (-4)</p><p>28 +26 -1 (-3)</p><p>29 +27 -1 (-4)</p><p>30 +28 -1 (-4)</p><p>[/code]</p><p></p><p>You'll note that there are a lot of levels where PCs are -1 compared to the monsters, but some of that is a bit irrelevant. PCs have so many options by Paragon, including permanently boosting defenses with feats (and accuracy, usually with a Paragon Path, and there's the potential for +1 more at level 21 based on Epic Destiny) that it's not game breaking.</p><p></p><p>I also put in a column at the right for the core rules using inherent bonuses and without Expertise. So, -1 is a heck of a lot better than -3 or -4.</p><p></p><p>Granted, this solution is not as elegant as +1/2 levels, but players would only need to figure this out at each level (and Character Builder would calculate it automatically).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Alternatively, the game could just make it +1 per level starting at level 2 and completely drop magic weapon/armor/neck item and ability score boosts.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5685846, member: 2011"] Interestingly enough, WotC mentioned that DMs could give the players a +1 feat bonus to accuracy and to defenses as a house rule. The question comes to mind, why would they suggest a feat bonus as opposed to just a bonus? Is it because it auto-removes the stacking of Expertise and other feats meant to fix the issue? By doing so, it also kills a few other feats that give feat bonuses, usually conditional feat bonuses. Because if one thinks about it, it's a math bug. It shouldn't be a feat bonus, it should just be a normal boost to accuracy and defenses, no different than the +1 every other level for merely leveling. One quick way that WotC could fix this is to remove the +1/2 levels and make it +3/5 levels (starting at level one). This could be an optional rule in the Character Builder. 1 2 +1 3 4 +2 5 +3 6 7 +4 8 9 +5 10 +6 11 12 +7 13 14 +8 15 +9 16 17 +10 18 19 +11 20 +12 21 22 +13 23 24 +14 25 +15 26 27 +16 28 29 +17 30 +18 The inherent bonus rules for both accuracy and defenses could then change to levels 3, 8, 13, 18, 23, and 28. Throwing ability increases into the mix, it becomes (level, total bonus with revised inherent, delta compared to monsters, and core rules inherent): [code] 1 2 +1 (+1) 3 +2 4 +3 5 +4 (-1) 6 +4 -1 (-1) 7 +5 -1 (-1) 8 +7 9 +8 (-1) 10 +9 (-1) 11 +9 -1 (-2) 12 +10 -1 (-1) 13 +11 -1 (-2) 14 +13 (-1) 15 +14 (-2) 16 +14 -1 (-2) 17 +15 -1 (-2) 18 +16 -1 (-2) 19 +17 -1 (-3) 20 +18 -1 (-3) 21 +19 -1 (-3) note: levels 21 through 30 might be +1 more for ability score, Epic Destiny depending 22 +20 -1 (-2) 23 +21 -1 (-3) 24 +22 -1 (-3) 25 +23 -1 (-4) 26 +23 -2 (-4) 27 +24 -2 (-4) 28 +26 -1 (-3) 29 +27 -1 (-4) 30 +28 -1 (-4) [/code] You'll note that there are a lot of levels where PCs are -1 compared to the monsters, but some of that is a bit irrelevant. PCs have so many options by Paragon, including permanently boosting defenses with feats (and accuracy, usually with a Paragon Path, and there's the potential for +1 more at level 21 based on Epic Destiny) that it's not game breaking. I also put in a column at the right for the core rules using inherent bonuses and without Expertise. So, -1 is a heck of a lot better than -3 or -4. Granted, this solution is not as elegant as +1/2 levels, but players would only need to figure this out at each level (and Character Builder would calculate it automatically). Alternatively, the game could just make it +1 per level starting at level 2 and completely drop magic weapon/armor/neck item and ability score boosts. [/QUOTE]
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