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WotC's Jeremy Crawford Talks D&D Alignment Changes
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8035163" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Nazi's get thrown around a lot, because they are such a versatile example. Let us be frank for a second, the Nazi party and Germany from the end of the First World War to the end of the Cold War is a complicated and nuanced situation, there was a lot going on, across the entire globe and presenting them with full accuracy means tackling all those details. </p><p></p><p>But it is pretty easy to simplify them down to "Those guys were evil." </p><p></p><p>However, if you take a group that is, say, Evil murderous raiders who hate all Player Character Races, it is a lot more complicated to figure out how to take that and turn it into a multi-faceted culture with good and bad guys. In fact, every time I've had to do it, the first thing I have to do is ignore the fact that they are murderous evil raiders who hate all the player character races and start from scratch. </p><p></p><p>So yes, it is easier to start from a complicated culture and then simplify it back down. Heck, your own example shows this. </p><p></p><p>"the notion of elves as woodland protectors and lovers of magic"</p><p></p><p>Elves that do not live in Woodlands being: Sun Elves (mostly living in cities), Dark Elves (living underground), Sea Elves (Living in ocean), Averial Elves (Living on a Glacier or the Plane of Air), Areniel Elves (Living on an Island and have a kingdom), Dusk Elves (seem to be in Ravenloft), Shadar-Kai (Living in the Shadowfell)</p><p></p><p>That is 7/12, over half not associated with half of your description. And "love magic" isn't universal either, since most of the Elves in 4e and 5e have "Wood Elf" which are usually more hardy and less magically inclined. </p><p></p><p>So your simple concept actually can't even describe most elves. But, it is adequate, because you are taking a very complex and multi-layered culture, and simplifying it down.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, they didn't use to be player options, but ever since the half-orc they started down this path. They've been a PC option now for a long time. </p><p></p><p>I'd also say that being regulated to low level mooks isn't a factor, there are plenty of low-level threats that are tied to high level threats. </p><p></p><p>And you might be right, they might become a standard player option instead of the half-orc. I mean, the half-orc has been standard since at least 3e, so it might be time for them to just put full blooded orcs into the book.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, why not. Would actually make the adventure easier since the halfings can't hide as a bonus action during the first scene.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You are ignoring the point. You are saying there is no difference between the two, and I am showing you the difference. I am using Nazi's because if I used beholders you would ignore me by saying "but beholder's are evil, read their statblock" and then I would have wasted my time trying to explain the difference. </p><p></p><p>There is a difference between saying something is evil, then ascribing it evil actions vs saying something is committing evil actions, then describing it as evil. The second way shows that it is the actions we are judging.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Except for angels, unicorns, Couatls, Aarcrocka, Storm Giants, Centaurs, All the Good Dragons, Empyreans.... but yeah, they took out good creatures, ugly and beautiful. Sure.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Wow, really? </p><p></p><p>Djinnis look exactly like people, only blue. </p><p>Cloud Giant looks exactly like a person, just cel-shaded art and wearing what I assume are lip piercings</p><p>And the Volo Storm Giant is just purple with a slightly wider nose than normal. </p><p></p><p>So, you pointed to three just average looking people, as a comparison to say these?</p><p>[ATTACH=full]123656[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]123657[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>And I was lazy too, I just googled DnD 5e Monster and grabbed two images. I didn't even look for Evil or Ugly.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You are insisting that they absolutely must exist, and that they must be evil, otherwise it isn't DnD. What else are you going to do with them? Keep them in a zoo?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8035163, member: 6801228"] Nazi's get thrown around a lot, because they are such a versatile example. Let us be frank for a second, the Nazi party and Germany from the end of the First World War to the end of the Cold War is a complicated and nuanced situation, there was a lot going on, across the entire globe and presenting them with full accuracy means tackling all those details. But it is pretty easy to simplify them down to "Those guys were evil." However, if you take a group that is, say, Evil murderous raiders who hate all Player Character Races, it is a lot more complicated to figure out how to take that and turn it into a multi-faceted culture with good and bad guys. In fact, every time I've had to do it, the first thing I have to do is ignore the fact that they are murderous evil raiders who hate all the player character races and start from scratch. So yes, it is easier to start from a complicated culture and then simplify it back down. Heck, your own example shows this. "the notion of elves as woodland protectors and lovers of magic" Elves that do not live in Woodlands being: Sun Elves (mostly living in cities), Dark Elves (living underground), Sea Elves (Living in ocean), Averial Elves (Living on a Glacier or the Plane of Air), Areniel Elves (Living on an Island and have a kingdom), Dusk Elves (seem to be in Ravenloft), Shadar-Kai (Living in the Shadowfell) That is 7/12, over half not associated with half of your description. And "love magic" isn't universal either, since most of the Elves in 4e and 5e have "Wood Elf" which are usually more hardy and less magically inclined. So your simple concept actually can't even describe most elves. But, it is adequate, because you are taking a very complex and multi-layered culture, and simplifying it down. Yeah, they didn't use to be player options, but ever since the half-orc they started down this path. They've been a PC option now for a long time. I'd also say that being regulated to low level mooks isn't a factor, there are plenty of low-level threats that are tied to high level threats. And you might be right, they might become a standard player option instead of the half-orc. I mean, the half-orc has been standard since at least 3e, so it might be time for them to just put full blooded orcs into the book. Sure, why not. Would actually make the adventure easier since the halfings can't hide as a bonus action during the first scene. You are ignoring the point. You are saying there is no difference between the two, and I am showing you the difference. I am using Nazi's because if I used beholders you would ignore me by saying "but beholder's are evil, read their statblock" and then I would have wasted my time trying to explain the difference. There is a difference between saying something is evil, then ascribing it evil actions vs saying something is committing evil actions, then describing it as evil. The second way shows that it is the actions we are judging. Except for angels, unicorns, Couatls, Aarcrocka, Storm Giants, Centaurs, All the Good Dragons, Empyreans.... but yeah, they took out good creatures, ugly and beautiful. Sure. Wow, really? Djinnis look exactly like people, only blue. Cloud Giant looks exactly like a person, just cel-shaded art and wearing what I assume are lip piercings And the Volo Storm Giant is just purple with a slightly wider nose than normal. So, you pointed to three just average looking people, as a comparison to say these? [ATTACH type="full"]123656[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]123657[/ATTACH] And I was lazy too, I just googled DnD 5e Monster and grabbed two images. I didn't even look for Evil or Ugly. You are insisting that they absolutely must exist, and that they must be evil, otherwise it isn't DnD. What else are you going to do with them? Keep them in a zoo? [/QUOTE]
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