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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8037878" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Gnolls form packs. That is a social level beyond the individual. Red Dragons tend to be rulers of their domains, acting as kings and empresses of their holdings. I guess society between Red Dragons is non-existant, but that is also the case for the Lawful Good Silver Dragon, so that doesn't actually tell us anything.Also, devils and hags are all about their own power and enjoy inflicting pain/death, and they are Lawful and Neutral Evil respectively.Which gets to my point, the alignment can't stand alone. It is too broad and not descriptive enough, to tell you how to run the monster. A gnoll and a Wisp will act completely differently if the party encounters them. But both are Chaotic Evil. Their abilities and lore are what tell you how they act, not their alignment, so it seems a vestigial part of their block.Ah, I understand slightly. I disagree. Mammon is Greedy. Yes, it is his tool to wield, but it is also his vice to suffer from. In contrast, Yugoloths are treated little different than mortal bands of mercenaries. More Powerful and harder to kill permanently, but with the same motivations.Sure, but my point still stands. that information exists, and is a better gauge for me of how to view an Aboleth than reading "Lawful Good". Maybe they could have condensed it down to a paragraph, but pretty much every monster gets that paragraph, and that is where the real information lies, not in the alignment.First, really? Did you think I was unaware that Gnolls don't have dragon breath weapons?To the second point about differences, yes, exactly, that is what I am saying. Is every Politician Alike? No. Is Every Politician of the Same party Alike? No. So, just seeing their party is not enough information to accurately portray their beliefs, motivations and actions. So again, Alignment is doing what for us? It is too broad, sometimes completely false, and presents us with a two word statement that we could have derived from just reading the lore provided.No problem.So, Neutral Good is Transactional Good? Good as the price of attaining some other goal? They are supposed to mirror each other after all.Or, are you implying that a LE character would not murder or seduce someone to further their long-term plans?Not saying it isn't but "Evil because they do bad things for payment" is kind of weak for something that is thematically supposed to be equal to Demons and Devils in the scale of their evil.Your insistence that the problem is that I lack understanding is getting rather annoying.Okay, but now we get into some nitty gritty stuff. Warmonger causes turmoil, does every Warlord who seeks to expand their empire get labeled as CE? Strip Mining an area can destablize the economy in the future, is that CE? And, how is imposing Order via harsh laws Chaotic? Nothing about "Lawful" says that they have to be good laws or laws that are fully consistent. Not having a governing structure is far more chaotic than ruling over the land as a king, no matter how "capricious" you are. In fact, Beelzebub is one of the Lords of the Nine, and his lore states that he is constantly building, destroying and rebuilding his realm seeking perfection. Seems capricious. Belial and Fierna are also canonically ruled by their desires. Dispater runs a paranoid police state. All of those would be destablizing, and yet, all of them are Lawful Evil.  You implied it would avoid alliances (they don't they sometimes choose to set aside their differences with Yuan-Ti and work towards a common goal, and it is noted that it is the Yuan-Ti that often chafe under the alliance) and that they destablize the region (they are a scholar, mind controlling thralls within their realm) Apathetic means lacking motivation. You are uninterested, you don't care about things and show no enthusiasm or concern. So, if you don't care, why are you running a secret multi-national spy cult devoted to the overthrow of governments and reestablishment of your global empire? Does that sound like someone who doesn't care about the workings of the world? That is indifferent to the state of the world?I don't think so, I think someone actively seeking to change the world, and doing so with a massive spy network stretching centuries and hundreds of miles of territory across multiple governmental boundaries is highly invested in the state of the world, and in changing that state to suite their needs.But, I suppose you will simply tell me I need to look deeper to understand how that is really what apathy is all about?</blockquote>

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