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*Dungeons & Dragons
WotC's Jeremy Crawford Talks D&D Alignment Changes
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8039901" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Never once seen someone refer to their Reason (the mental powers concerned with forming conclusions, judgments, or inferences) as their Conscience (an inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one's behavior. )</p><p></p><p>But I know better than to try and argue with you over your definitions of words. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you refuse to have the conversation, then refuse to have it. I don't see what you constantly calling me out is supposed to accomplish. Especially since I have answered your demands twice.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What was that about strawmanning? You'll note that in my posts, I have constantly pointed out the details people have added to the system. If you think I am wrong about those points, discuss it. If you would rather challenge me to think about what I want out of life, kindly stop.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That was sort of the point. You asked what standards people were using, well all of those are things people have said.</p><p></p><p>I called them opinions because if I called them anything else, my point would be dismissed out of hand. </p><p></p><p>Really, the Tribal People being less Lawful than City Folk is the biggest red flag in my opinion, and that keeps coming up.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sounds like they don't get to decide their alignment. Sounds like the DM gets to determine it for them. At that point, if a DM was telling me to change my alignment on my sheet because of how my character was acting... well, I'd probably tell him that the space is blank and I'm not writing anything in there anyways.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, because some where you would have to have pages of information defining those letters. Plus, you'd lose out on some cool lore. The books don't tell us that Aboleths are Lawful, they show us by telling us what they do. Show, don't tell.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm curious [USER=6801845]@Oofta[/USER] , did he have a clan or tribe? Did he care about any of their laws or traditions? I'm not trying to catch you in a trap or anything. </p><p></p><p>It just occurs to me that you just listed three things "laws" "titles" "societal norms" that are supposed to show that this barbarian is chaotic.... but would they really show that? </p><p></p><p>For example, I just looked up a wierd Ohio law. It is illegal for more than five women to live in a house at the same time. Not even talking about Ohioans, do you think someone from Canada would care about that law? How about Germany? Your barbarian doesn't care about laws, but how often was he subjected to laws <strong>from his own society</strong>. Same with titles, I understand that there is a difference between a Duke, A Marquiss and a Baron, but I'm not going to treat them any differently than anyone else, because those titles aren't part of my society. </p><p></p><p>This is a perennial problem with alignment. If you are chaotic for ignoring laws, but you are not from the society those laws are meant to govern, are you really chaotic for not following every foreign law?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And yet you yourself have said in a previous post " It’s a DMs job to point that out and say, yes your alignment probably needs to be changed on your character sheet." It is a little ways up in this post. </p><p></p><p>So, the PCs autonomy is met with the DMs job to tell them which two word description they <strong><u>really</u></strong> are, despite their, you know, actual beliefs on the subject.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So you would ignore lore immediately next to the statblock?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8039901, member: 6801228"] Never once seen someone refer to their Reason (the mental powers concerned with forming conclusions, judgments, or inferences) as their Conscience (an inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one's behavior. ) But I know better than to try and argue with you over your definitions of words. If you refuse to have the conversation, then refuse to have it. I don't see what you constantly calling me out is supposed to accomplish. Especially since I have answered your demands twice. What was that about strawmanning? You'll note that in my posts, I have constantly pointed out the details people have added to the system. If you think I am wrong about those points, discuss it. If you would rather challenge me to think about what I want out of life, kindly stop. That was sort of the point. You asked what standards people were using, well all of those are things people have said. I called them opinions because if I called them anything else, my point would be dismissed out of hand. Really, the Tribal People being less Lawful than City Folk is the biggest red flag in my opinion, and that keeps coming up. Sounds like they don't get to decide their alignment. Sounds like the DM gets to determine it for them. At that point, if a DM was telling me to change my alignment on my sheet because of how my character was acting... well, I'd probably tell him that the space is blank and I'm not writing anything in there anyways. No, because some where you would have to have pages of information defining those letters. Plus, you'd lose out on some cool lore. The books don't tell us that Aboleths are Lawful, they show us by telling us what they do. Show, don't tell. I'm curious [USER=6801845]@Oofta[/USER] , did he have a clan or tribe? Did he care about any of their laws or traditions? I'm not trying to catch you in a trap or anything. It just occurs to me that you just listed three things "laws" "titles" "societal norms" that are supposed to show that this barbarian is chaotic.... but would they really show that? For example, I just looked up a wierd Ohio law. It is illegal for more than five women to live in a house at the same time. Not even talking about Ohioans, do you think someone from Canada would care about that law? How about Germany? Your barbarian doesn't care about laws, but how often was he subjected to laws [B]from his own society[/B]. Same with titles, I understand that there is a difference between a Duke, A Marquiss and a Baron, but I'm not going to treat them any differently than anyone else, because those titles aren't part of my society. This is a perennial problem with alignment. If you are chaotic for ignoring laws, but you are not from the society those laws are meant to govern, are you really chaotic for not following every foreign law? And yet you yourself have said in a previous post " It’s a DMs job to point that out and say, yes your alignment probably needs to be changed on your character sheet." It is a little ways up in this post. So, the PCs autonomy is met with the DMs job to tell them which two word description they [B][U]really[/U][/B] are, despite their, you know, actual beliefs on the subject. So you would ignore lore immediately next to the statblock? [/QUOTE]
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