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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8052003" data-attributes="member: 6801228">There are so many disconnects in this thread, I'm at a loss of how to even continue. There are rules for alignment in the Fifth Edition PHB. Those rules are not great for actually defining alignment as it applies to Fifth Edition DnD. Can you say "no evil at my table" and it sort of work out? I suppose. I mean, I could go to a class of fourth graders and ask them about evil and they'd have a pretty solid grasp of it. Because, we've got a sort of cultural osmosis for things like morality. Now, you might read that and say "that's why alignment works, why are you trying to get rid of it?" And the response is "that is why alignment is unnecessary". If we just care about A) Labeling People after the fact or B) having a category relying entirely on cultural understanding of good and evil, with no rules, then why do we have the rules?And I know what people will say, because we are just turning the wheel at this point. They will say "but it is a useful guideline" except, it isn't. We know it isn't, but you guys keep falling back to the same defense. "Well at my table", "Well, at every table it is different", "Of course, my table handles it" If these are supposed to be rules for the game, then they can't only work when reduced down to the individual DM interpretation. And I'm sure you'll find some obscure part of some section of the rules that is left to DM interpretation, but there is a big difference there. Because Alignment is an entire contained system in and of itself. The equivalent would be like saying "spellcasting" (the entire system) only works at the DM interpretation level. And what makes this amusing, is I keep getting asked "just because you don't use it, why do you want to take it away from us" and the true fact of the matter is I can't take it from you. Not only in the sense of I can't go and take away your books, but alignment isn't even limited to the game system you are playing, as shown by The Sword defending alignment by talking about how well it works in Pathfinder. Which might even be objectively true, but misses the point that that isn't even DnD. A close sibling, sure, but not the game system we are talking about. So, if alignment exists outside of edition and even game system, then nothing I can do to the system or game edition can affect it. Because I'm limited to working within DnD 5e maybe DnD 6e. And you guys are beyond that. So even if I was capable of ripping alignment out root and branch from 5e.... it wouldn't affect you, because Pathfinder still has it. 2e still as it. But, I'm not really interested in discussing alignment as it pertains to the whole of the RPG market.</blockquote>

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