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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5419653" data-attributes="member: 87792">You can mark that one down as confirmed.&nbsp; Start with sixwordstories.livejournal.com (not good - just damn big).&nbsp; Yes, two thirds of the characters being roleplayed there at least are from films or TV.&nbsp; Your point?&nbsp;Why?&nbsp; Because of the massive irony-factor involved?&nbsp; When D&amp;D has since 1974 been slapped onto a minatures wargame.&nbsp;Encounter means scene.&nbsp; Start from that premise and things fall into place.&nbsp; And I for one find the skill challenge rules excellent - near the sweet spot of providing me as DM enough to resolve things without being constraining or meaning I need to disrupt the scene to look things up.&nbsp;And 4e to me is the first edition to provide that without heading hard down the simulationist rabbit hole and in the direction of GURPS Vehicles (why not just use a CAD package?)&nbsp; The DC setting in 3e makes me want to tear my hair out as a DM.&nbsp; And let's not get into 2e's mess of NWPs.&nbsp;&nbsp;Really?&nbsp; That's what some do.&nbsp; But not often what happens at my tables.&nbsp;In short, every single thing you say 4e doesn't do it does for me.&nbsp;&nbsp;But that's not the only measure of power.&nbsp; (And a bonus is always the flip side of a penalty).&nbsp; Yes, there's a quantitative jump in 4e at each level.&nbsp; But there's a qualitative leap in older editions - each new spell level (i.e. every other level) makes you massively more effective.&nbsp;&nbsp;And less pronounced than spell levels.&nbsp; Which is why the fighter drops off the radar as an effective class fast.&nbsp; There's a reason in 3e every two levels is a doubling of power by the EL system and in 4e it's every four levels.&nbsp;&nbsp;You're thinking of 2e not 3e.&nbsp; Wands of Cure Light Wounds delt with a lot - leaving just daily resources as the attrition system.&nbsp; 4e limits healing.&nbsp;&nbsp;Until you got rich enough to afford Wands of Cure Light Wounds.&nbsp; (A wand of CLW cost 750gp and stored 50*5.5 = 275hp).&nbsp; At that point (4th level or so) only very poor parties with extremely stingy DMs needed to worry about time healing. &nbsp;&nbsp;And here is the flipside of the castle/follower rules.&nbsp; Because that hard codes things.&nbsp;&nbsp;Bollocks!&nbsp; 4e, with skill challenges, has more non-combat support than any previous edition, along with a DMG pushing them hard.&nbsp; Now if you're talking about 4e modules, you have a point...&nbsp;&nbsp;Yeah, this is why I can't stand AD&amp;D.&nbsp; For that matter the combat rules are too disconnected to suit me.&nbsp;&nbsp;But this is how I like both.&nbsp; When things matter to the milimetre with imminent danger of death things are nailed down.&nbsp; When there's longer to play with, things are looser.&nbsp;&nbsp;The ones in modules suck.&nbsp;&nbsp;And are rolling against hard DCs at best.&nbsp; If you're playing the situation I'll be handing out easy DCs.&nbsp;&nbsp;Which is precisely what skill challenges are meant for <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp;&nbsp;Yes, it's a rope and pulley system.&nbsp; In older editions I don't even have to do that.&nbsp; I need to construct my own framework for any complex action.&nbsp; &nbsp;The rules are providing what I need.&nbsp; Resolution mechanics that match the PCs abilities and then fade into the background.&nbsp;&nbsp;A Big Book Of Illustrated Skill Challenges would be sweet.&nbsp; The guidance on how to use them sucks.&nbsp; Which is very different from nto finding them extremely useful.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5419653, member: 87792"] You can mark that one down as confirmed. Start with sixwordstories.livejournal.com (not good - just damn big). Yes, two thirds of the characters being roleplayed there at [I]least[/I] are from films or TV. Your point? Why? Because of the massive irony-factor involved? When D&D has since 1974 been slapped onto a minatures wargame. Encounter means scene. Start from that premise and things fall into place. And I for one find the skill challenge rules excellent - near the sweet spot of providing me as DM enough to resolve things without being constraining or meaning I need to disrupt the scene to look things up. And 4e to me is the first edition to provide that without heading hard down the simulationist rabbit hole and in the direction of GURPS Vehicles (why not just use a CAD package?) The DC setting in 3e makes me want to tear my hair out as a DM. And let's not get into 2e's mess of NWPs. Really? That's what some do. But not often what happens at my tables. In short, every single thing you say 4e doesn't do it does for me. But that's not the only measure of power. (And a bonus is always the flip side of a penalty). Yes, there's a quantitative jump in 4e at each level. But there's a qualitative leap in older editions - each new spell level (i.e. every other level) makes you massively more effective. And less pronounced than spell levels. Which is why the fighter drops off the radar as an effective class fast. There's a reason in 3e every two levels is a doubling of power by the EL system and in 4e it's every four levels. You're thinking of 2e not 3e. Wands of Cure Light Wounds delt with a lot - leaving just daily resources as the attrition system. 4e limits healing. Until you got rich enough to afford Wands of Cure Light Wounds. (A wand of CLW cost 750gp and stored 50*5.5 = 275hp). At that point (4th level or so) only very poor parties with extremely stingy DMs needed to worry about time healing. And here is the flipside of the castle/follower rules. Because that hard codes things. Bollocks! 4e, with skill challenges, has more non-combat support than any previous edition, along with a DMG pushing them hard. Now if you're talking about 4e [I]modules,[/I] you have a point... Yeah, this is why I can't stand AD&D. For that matter the combat rules are too disconnected to suit me. But this is how I like both. When things matter to the milimetre with imminent danger of death things are nailed down. When there's longer to play with, things are looser. The ones in modules [I]suck[/I]. And are rolling against hard DCs at best. If you're playing the situation I'll be handing out easy DCs. Which is precisely what skill challenges are meant for :) Yes, it's a rope and pulley system. In older editions I don't even have to do that. I need to construct my own framework for any complex action. The rules are providing what I need. Resolution mechanics that match the PCs abilities and then fade into the background. A Big Book Of Illustrated Skill Challenges would be sweet. The guidance on how to use them sucks. Which is very different from nto finding them extremely useful. [/QUOTE]

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