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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5420829" data-attributes="member: 87792">No, I don't find that interesting.&nbsp; I find it a complete misrepresentation of what 4e has actually done.&nbsp; I find athletics or the 3e climb skill far more flexible and usable than a Climb Walls: 85% chance.&nbsp; I can see where the 3.x folks are coming from (I disagree with them - I don't think the detail you can put into skills in 3.x really matters).&nbsp; But the quote I was comparing to THAC0 was taking something out of context when the full context and guidance to me mean the opposite of what it is being claimed to mean.&nbsp; It's certainly the opposite of how I use them.&nbsp;4e has expanded what happens out of combat.&nbsp; It's added skill challenges rather than 1e's Thief Skills, 2e's NWPs (ack!), and every prior edition's pass/fail single point issues and overwhelming magic.&nbsp; (3e does have a more detailed skill system - but I like the lack of skills either being trained and automatic or not and therefore massively lower in 4e).&nbsp; It is, however, a rules light expansion and not as expanded as the combat system is.&nbsp; But that's very different from the claim that it's reduced.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5420829, member: 87792"] No, I don't find that interesting. I find it a complete misrepresentation of what 4e has actually done. I find athletics or the 3e climb skill far more flexible and usable than a Climb Walls: 85% chance. I can see where the 3.x folks are coming from (I disagree with them - I don't think the detail you can put into skills in 3.x really matters). But the quote I was comparing to THAC0 was taking something out of context when the full context and guidance to me mean the opposite of what it is being claimed to mean. It's certainly the opposite of how I use them. 4e has expanded what happens out of combat. It's added skill challenges rather than 1e's Thief Skills, 2e's NWPs (ack!), and every prior edition's pass/fail single point issues and overwhelming magic. (3e does have a more [I]detailed[/I] skill system - but I like the lack of skills either being trained and automatic or not and therefore massively lower in 4e). It is, however, a rules light expansion and not as expanded as the combat system is. But that's very different from the claim that it's [I]reduced[/I]. [/QUOTE]

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