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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jdavis" data-source="post: 554500" data-attributes="member: 8704">No I saw them, but I was sort of looking at it from the fact that with enough money you can do crazy things like that. Heck with enough money you could get similar results with about any class. Now how does having 160,000gp in armor make the Dwarven Defender Prestige Class too powerful? You can number crunch any class and get similar results.  That would be a 18 dex, so what would the other scores be? He would have to be low someplace, You would think that the high scores would be in strength and constitution, I guess he could have magic items to boost those stats too, he could have a magic item to boost every stat but how would that make Dwarven Defenders overbalancing? Yes a tough encounter but not a fearsome foe, just a monster that they might have to stop adventuring and rest after they fought. My point was that it is a beatable encounter by normal well rounded characters, for over the top power players who spend tons of time trying to figure out how to get a 55 AC then it probably is a speed bump on the road to a real challenge. The challenge ratings are good guidelines but they don't include a munchkin multiplier, you have to consider the party make up. The El's are designed for a typical party of four, I don't see where the described character was in any way a typical character, I could be wrong but I sure hope not. And yes my games party of six throws off the el's too, so we can take on stronger monsters. two trolls CR 7, 5 pc's average level 3.2, give them a +1 to encounter level for having a extra PC for a 4.2. We were given acid and instructions on how to kill the Trolls, thus making the job much easier that's a -1 from the encounter level. your looking at  a average party level caluculated at 4(.2) and a encounter level of 6 making that a significant challenge and it was, but as I said it was the whole adventure, we didn't have any other monsters to face so you would want a significant challenge to make it worthwhile, we fought them and got our butts kicked but won, then we limped back to town, I don't see that as a crazy once in a lifetime achievement, it was actually a pretty good little adventure that posed enough challenge to make it interesting. By the way three small jugs of acid were given to us by the merchants who hired us to kill the Trolls that were attacking their caravans. Yes fulfilling the role of the party tank, for 6 or 7 rounds the Dwarf can play the role of meat shield, providing the Dragon doesn't pull any crazy tactics like moving to the left and walking around him or flying. Yes the numbers they can generate on Defense are very good, but that's what the whole class is designed around. I don't see where this makes a Dwarven Defender any better than a straight Dwarven fighter, he gets some specialty skills and looses out on other stuff, it's just a specialization, it doesn't overbalance the game or make for crazy powered characters. The whole point I have been trying to make is that there is not a horrible problem with prestige classes and game balance, the players decide what type of characters they want to play and how they want to go about it. If the players want to power game then they will no matter what is out there to choose from.</blockquote>

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