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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hong" data-source="post: 578318" data-attributes="member: 537">Given that all your whinging has been directed at how the DD is supposedly incontrovertibly more powerful than a regular tank PC, this is indeed a smackdown thread. The fact you haven't recognised it as such speaks volumes about... something, anyway.Irrelevant, because neither the DD nor the regular tank are going to have Ref saves worth a damn.When most things you're fighting at 12th+ level have an attack bonus around +20, a +21 touch AC also isn't worth a damn.Tell me now what wizard is actually going to be casting melee touch spells, when they have ranged touch spells also available. Also tell me what cleric who prepares harm regularly isn't going to have a melee attack bonus actually worth talking about.Neither is the DD. The point is that such attacks completely negate the DD's purported advantages, thus showing up your complaints for the hot air that they are.Read up on grappling sometime.Exactly. It puts everyone back on a level playing field, making your whinges irrelevant.Tell me again how the DD is better than a tank fighter or barb with a bow.The barb dies, just the same as the DD. Ain't high-level D&D fun? You should try it sometime.Exactly. Against such attacks, the DD's supposed advantages hold no water.Funny you should say that.You're new here, aren't you?Hong "still chaotic this week" Ooi</blockquote>