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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Victim" data-source="post: 578356" data-attributes="member: 78">Captain annoying?  What did I do deserve that?  The point is, the barbarian can use the exact same tricks as your example DD, and have a good enough AC that most foes will still miss.  While the difference is noticeable, there isn't that great of a gulf between DD AC and barbarian AC.  The only reason I used an animated shield instead of a normal one is because I usually assume that barbarians will use 2 handed weapons - but I've seen barbarians fighting sword (axe) and board.  Besides the animated shield, everything was the exact same.  While Dodge isn't required for barbarians, Spring Attack is a useful feat for barbarians, because they have good speed and typically use 2 handers.  As long as a character is devoting most of his/her magic junk to AC, they'll be hard to hit.  You can't say it's not a gear contest, because almost all the AC in your example came from gear.  Your DD was 1 point ahead because full plate normally allows 9 max AC instead of 8 like almost all other armors.  It gains another 3 to 5 for the class AC bonus and can use defensive stance.  Anything else is gear.  A more fair statement would be "A dwarven defender will have a slighty higher AC than a comparable fighter, and can use defensive stance for greater emergency defense," instead of making up an example that can be copied almost entirely by any character.  The barbarian's Reflex will be higher in most cases.  While the 20th level poor saves are equal, multiclassing between classes with the same saves boosts good progressions and slows bad ones.  The barbarian should increase his save 1 level ahead of a fighter DD.  Also, barbarians will tend to but more weight in dexterity because they wear lighter armor.  Also, the barbarian's faster movement will mean that he can quickly move to avoid clusters.  If the group is clustered up, then when the characters split up a bit, the barbarian can move farther away or close quickly so that area attacks will fall on the wizard or his allies.  Even when flying, the barb can have an extra 30 speed.Defensive stance won't usually be applicable because it keeps you from moving.  So a DD will only have his class bonus against the barbarian's higher dex.  The barbarian will probably start with a better touch AC but the DD will end up ahead.  Umm, Grapple doesn't involved your armor or natural armor.  The barbarian will be ahead because his strength will be boosted by rage.Actually, greater dispelling doesn't have to hurt everyone.  Characters relying on magical item effects have much less to worry about.  If you use +5 armor instead of Magic Vestment, a +6 belt instead of Bull's STR, etc, it's not as much of a problem.  But, assuming characters are working together and spellcasters are buffing people, then yes, everyone (except the characters with Spell Turning or rings of counsterspelling) is hindered by dispels.Characters focused on melee combat will take a substancial hit in effectiveness when using a ranged weapon - and vice versa.  Just like people don't expect the Arcane Archer to tank, most dangerous enemies won't wear the DD's fire support too much.The Dwarven Defender is a good prestige class.  Using Hospitaler or something would make for a much better example of prestige class design.  Or all the wizard classes that give up nothing.</blockquote>

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