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<blockquote data-quote="Apok" data-source="post: 451531" data-attributes="member: 1969">&quot;Real life&quot; is the key operating word here.&nbsp; This is not &quot;real life,&quot; this is a game which has rules and those rules state that if you are attempting to subdue someone, you don't worry about accidentaly killing them unless you roll a critical FUMBLE, which last time I checked was a roll of 1.&nbsp; In fact, aren't critical fumbles for attack rolls optional rules?&nbsp; But anyways, if the DM wants to monkey with the rules to make them more realistic then he should inform his players of this beforehand rather than making a last-minute call and &quot;justifying&quot; it with a &quot;realistically...&quot; statement.&nbsp; Especially if it's an area that the rules are quite clear on and especially if the consequences are this dire (i.e. the possibility of accidentally killing the girl instead of just subduing her).&nbsp; Oh, and your alternative position of subduing the High Priest of Evil doesn't help your argument any.&nbsp; If you are choosing to subdue him, then obviously you want him alive.&nbsp; Rolling a 1 and doing real damage (possibly killing him) would be an acceptable fumble since you don't want to kill him.&nbsp; Now, I certainly wouldn't say that a nat 1 on a subdual role does normal critical damage.&nbsp; That's just stupid and I'm still trying to figure out why you mentioned it.&nbsp; Any DM who ruled that a nat 1 on a Subdual attempt should automatically Crit &amp; cause real damage would be insane.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Apok, post: 451531, member: 1969"] "Real life" is the key operating word here. This is not "real life," this is a game which has rules and those rules state that if you are attempting to subdue someone, you don't worry about accidentaly killing them unless you roll a critical FUMBLE, which last time I checked was a roll of 1. In fact, aren't critical fumbles for attack rolls [i] optional [/i] rules? But anyways, if the DM wants to monkey with the rules to make them more realistic then he should inform his players of this beforehand rather than making a last-minute call and "justifying" it with a "realistically..." statement. Especially if it's an area that the rules are quite clear on and [i] especially [/i] if the consequences are this dire (i.e. the possibility of accidentally killing the girl instead of just subduing her). Oh, and your alternative position of subduing the High Priest of Evil doesn't help your argument any. If you are choosing to subdue him, then obviously you want him alive. Rolling a 1 and doing real damage (possibly killing him) would be an acceptable fumble since you don't want to kill him. Now, I certainly wouldn't say that a nat 1 on a subdual role does normal [i] critical [/i] damage. That's just stupid and I'm still trying to figure out why you mentioned it. Any DM who ruled that a nat 1 on a Subdual attempt should automatically Crit & cause real damage would be insane. [/QUOTE]

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