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<blockquote data-quote="Tsyr" data-source="post: 452542" data-attributes="member: 354">Janos: First of all, how is kidnapping not evil? I'd just like someone to answer this please. It seems to fit the definitions that the 3E references give for evil, and most of those are halfway reasonable... disregard for human life (check), debasing and ignoring the dignity of said life (check)... And it certainly doesn't match any description of good or neutral characters... altruism, respect for life and dignity of life, etc etc...Second...&nbsp;No, this was not something he caused. He did not make the party kidnap the child. He did not make the party attack the child with a sword. If the players had desplayed a moment of concern or even thought, neither of those situations would have happened, and thus the child wouldn't be dead. The DM is punishing the players for something the players did, not something the DM did. Furthermore, if this heinous act does not earn them the wrath of paladins and good-aligned clerics, a mere alignment shift will not. Al:Agreed.&nbsp;There is no indication that there was a &quot;QOVI&quot; involved here, and given that A) The party is low level and B) The party seems to be on the moraly uncertain side anyhow, I think it's unlikely. In any case, I won't assume there was unless I have been given some indication thereof.&nbsp;Now, see, here is where I disagree... It was stupid, yes, but I think that in stupidity one can often see a person's true nature. This group's first thought seemed to have been to kidnap an innocent to avenge the guilty. This, to me, speaks volumes for their character and morals, or lack thereof.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tsyr, post: 452542, member: 354"] Janos: First of all, how is kidnapping [b]not[/b] evil? I'd just like someone to answer this please. It seems to fit the definitions that the 3E references give for evil, and most of those are halfway reasonable... disregard for human life (check), debasing and ignoring the dignity of said life (check)... And it certainly doesn't match any description of good or neutral characters... altruism, respect for life and dignity of life, etc etc... Second... No, this was not something he caused. He did not make the party kidnap the child. He did not make the party attack the child with a sword. If the players had desplayed a moment of concern or even thought, neither of those situations would have happened, and thus the child wouldn't be dead. The DM is punishing the players for something the players did, not something the DM did. Furthermore, if this heinous act does not earn them the wrath of paladins and good-aligned clerics, a mere alignment shift will not. Al: Agreed. There is no indication that there was a "QOVI" involved here, and given that A) The party is low level and B) The party seems to be on the moraly uncertain side anyhow, I think it's unlikely. In any case, I won't assume there was unless I have been given some indication thereof. Now, see, here is where I disagree... It was stupid, yes, but I think that in stupidity one can often see a person's true nature. This group's first thought seemed to have been to kidnap an innocent to avenge the guilty. This, to me, speaks volumes for their character and morals, or lack thereof. [/QUOTE]

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