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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5170938" data-attributes="member: 2011">Why don't you explain your system of bookkeeping since it is trivial?Explain what you mean by &quot;good at doing so&quot;. Are you claiming that it's easier to wipe out foes in Pathfinder than it is in 4E?I've been playing D&amp;D for 32 years and I really don't see a difference between foes coming at the party from all directions in Pathfinder and 4E from an encounter building skills perspective.The difference I see is what has to be done to keep track of the encounter itself.In 3E, if the Cleric casts a protective spell on the Fighter, it lasts one round per level. Sure, there is some bookkeeping that has to be done there. Every round, a 3rd level Cleric had to subtract 1 to a counter for each of the two protective spells he had up and if one got to zero, he had to tell the Fighter &quot;you are no longer protected&quot;. But once the PCs got to 5th level or so, even that level of bookkeeping mostly disappeared. For the most part, players made a penciled in change to their character sheet for the entire encounter.In 4E, players have to add and subtract stuff all of the time. They either remember it (which some players are good at and others or not), or they write it down and then cross (or erase) it out, over and over again.And, there is sometimes unnecessary bookkeeping. The PCs daze or slow their foes (or vice versa), often to no great outcome (i.e. slowing or dazing a marked foe next to the Fighter often does nothing other than adding unnecessarily bookkeeping, but the bookkeeping has to be kept track of, just in case it does become necessary).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5170938, member: 2011"] Why don't you explain your system of bookkeeping since it is trivial? Explain what you mean by "good at doing so". Are you claiming that it's easier to wipe out foes in Pathfinder than it is in 4E? I've been playing D&D for 32 years and I really don't see a difference between foes coming at the party from all directions in Pathfinder and 4E from an encounter building skills perspective. The difference I see is what has to be done to keep track of the encounter itself. In 3E, if the Cleric casts a protective spell on the Fighter, it lasts one round per level. Sure, there is some bookkeeping that has to be done there. Every round, a 3rd level Cleric had to subtract 1 to a counter for each of the two protective spells he had up and if one got to zero, he had to tell the Fighter "you are no longer protected". But once the PCs got to 5th level or so, even that level of bookkeeping mostly disappeared. For the most part, players made a penciled in change to their character sheet for the entire encounter. In 4E, players have to add and subtract stuff all of the time. They either remember it (which some players are good at and others or not), or they write it down and then cross (or erase) it out, over and over again. And, there is sometimes unnecessary bookkeeping. The PCs daze or slow their foes (or vice versa), often to no great outcome (i.e. slowing or dazing a marked foe next to the Fighter often does nothing other than adding unnecessarily bookkeeping, but the bookkeeping has to be kept track of, just in case it does become necessary). [/QUOTE]

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