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Would you allow ASI/feats in place of a subclass levels features?
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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 7428392" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>There would be less flavor, but let's keep in mind that we've never had subclasses until 5e (with the exception of kits in 2e maybe?), and the added flavor of 3e prestige classes was optional, but we were still able to create flavorful PCs.</p><p></p><p>I disagree about the samey-ness. Feats are always individually picked i.e. every PC has different feats. All Wizards have the same class features, so you can differentiate them by subclass, but then all Wizards of a specific subclass have the same subclass features. The final differentiation comes from individually-picked abilities such as spells and feats, so feats contribute to the differentiation. However, it is true that <em>too many feats</em> might result in everyone ending up taking the same ones, especially for classes like Wizard who generally don't have many feats designed for them. I am less worried about the samey-ness of ability scores... the typical trend is to max your primary score, and when you reach the max you then increase other scores, and that's when different players make different choices (so in a sense, more ASI might actually mean more differentiation).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Alternating might be a good idea.</p><p></p><p>I am undecided about whether the scarcity of available feats is actually a good or bad thing...</p><p></p><p>The bad thing about it, is that all characters of a certain type will gravitate towards the same feats. For instance, if all spellcasters take War Caster, Spell Sniper and Elemental Adept, then it's quite boring. Additionally, you might end up with literally everyone taking those universally good feats like Lucky or Alert. (Note that this already happens with 5 feats per PC, so my house rule will only make it worse).</p><p></p><p>The good thing about it, is that after taking a few too-good feats and maxing your primary score, you are then forced to take sub-par feats and/or raise a secondary score, simply because you're running out of too-good options. That would mean you'd get an early boost compared to choosing a subclass, but later on you might reap decreasing rewards.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Just to clarify, the player's specific case isn't really a big deal <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Since the cause of the issue is his indecision in picking an Arcane Tradition, all I am doing is essentially let him take an ASI at 2nd level and then pick the Arcane Tradition at 4th level instead of the usual ASI, so basically swapping 2nd level with 4th level, giving him more time (2 levels) before choosing the subclass he'll be stuck with all his PC's life. So it's really a lot of a smaller deal than what we're discussing in this thread, but since the idea made me think that it could be used for example to represent a "generalist" wizard, I wanted to discuss it in more general terms.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 7428392, member: 1465"] There would be less flavor, but let's keep in mind that we've never had subclasses until 5e (with the exception of kits in 2e maybe?), and the added flavor of 3e prestige classes was optional, but we were still able to create flavorful PCs. I disagree about the samey-ness. Feats are always individually picked i.e. every PC has different feats. All Wizards have the same class features, so you can differentiate them by subclass, but then all Wizards of a specific subclass have the same subclass features. The final differentiation comes from individually-picked abilities such as spells and feats, so feats contribute to the differentiation. However, it is true that [I]too many feats[/I] might result in everyone ending up taking the same ones, especially for classes like Wizard who generally don't have many feats designed for them. I am less worried about the samey-ness of ability scores... the typical trend is to max your primary score, and when you reach the max you then increase other scores, and that's when different players make different choices (so in a sense, more ASI might actually mean more differentiation). Alternating might be a good idea. I am undecided about whether the scarcity of available feats is actually a good or bad thing... The bad thing about it, is that all characters of a certain type will gravitate towards the same feats. For instance, if all spellcasters take War Caster, Spell Sniper and Elemental Adept, then it's quite boring. Additionally, you might end up with literally everyone taking those universally good feats like Lucky or Alert. (Note that this already happens with 5 feats per PC, so my house rule will only make it worse). The good thing about it, is that after taking a few too-good feats and maxing your primary score, you are then forced to take sub-par feats and/or raise a secondary score, simply because you're running out of too-good options. That would mean you'd get an early boost compared to choosing a subclass, but later on you might reap decreasing rewards. Just to clarify, the player's specific case isn't really a big deal :) Since the cause of the issue is his indecision in picking an Arcane Tradition, all I am doing is essentially let him take an ASI at 2nd level and then pick the Arcane Tradition at 4th level instead of the usual ASI, so basically swapping 2nd level with 4th level, giving him more time (2 levels) before choosing the subclass he'll be stuck with all his PC's life. So it's really a lot of a smaller deal than what we're discussing in this thread, but since the idea made me think that it could be used for example to represent a "generalist" wizard, I wanted to discuss it in more general terms. [/QUOTE]
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