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Would you allow switching shield proficiency for Agonizing Blast as a DM?
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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8654822" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>First, You do not need proficiency to use a shield in an emergency. Any character can get the +2 AC from a shield.</p><p></p><p>Second, a shield is only usable if you are actually have it and if you do not intend to use it you will probably not buy it or carry it. Further it takes an action to don, making it generally less useful than dodging in "an emergency" even if you do have it. Since any character can use the shield, what the proficiency actually affords you is the ability to make checks, make attacks and cast spells without disadvantage. Yet here you are giving up an ability check, attack or spell casting opportunity to don this shield, meaning that passing a check, landing an attack or casting a spell is not that important in this particular "emergency" anyway.</p><p></p><p>Third, there is only a 10% chance per attack that the +2 bonus even matters, making it very ineffective in an "emergency". Where a sheild is effective is when you are targeted by hundreds of attacks over days or weeks resulting a significant statistical difference between wielding it and not wielding it. Since we are talking about "emergency" uses we do not have the high volume of attacks targeting the character that someone who regularly uses a shield will have and therefore it is MUCH less effective at protecting the character. If you are trying to don your shield to prevent getting swallowed by a purple worm there is a 10% chance it will work, the other 90% of the time it will be irrelevant. On average the chances are the+2 will make no difference at all unless you are targeted 7 or more times and you would need to be targeted 18 times before there would be a 80% chance that the +2 would make a difference. Since we do not normally use a shield, we are not targeted by the large numbers of attacks to make the bonus relevant.</p><p></p><p>Fourth, depending on the specifics of the "emergency" painters tools might actually be more useful. Originally I picked carpenters tools, but I changed it to painters tools because carpenters tools are way more useful than a shield you don't use, and carpenters tools would be a substantial upgrade in play.</p><p></p><p>Even with painters tools though let's compare what these two would offer:</p><p></p><p><strong>Shield proficiency-</strong> RAW all this does is allow you to make checks without disadvantage, attacks without disadvantage and cast spells in combat, while using a shield that you do not ever intend to use, and probably are not carrying, and only after you spend an action to don it. Out of combat it has no use at all as you can simply doff it. So it has a miniscule chance at some point of coming into play in one of three of the game pillars.</p><p></p><p>Here are some of the things you can do with painters tools that are called out in the RAW, and for most of them you do not need the tools themselves:</p><p></p><p><em>Proficiency with painter's supplies represents your ability to paint and draw. You also acquire an understanding of art history, which can aid you in examining works of art. </em></p><p><em><strong>Components.</strong> Painter's supplies include an easel, canvas, paints, brushes, charcoal sticks, and a palette. </em></p><p><em><strong>Arcana, History, Religion. </strong>Your expertise aids you in uncovering lore of any sort that is attached to a work of art, such as the magical properties of a painting or the origins of a strange mural found in a dungeon. </em></p><p><em><strong>Investigation, Perception.</strong> When you inspect a painting or a similar work of visual art, your knowledge of the practices behind creating it can grant you additional insight. </em></p><p><em><strong>Painting and Drawing.</strong> As part of a short or long rest, you can produce a simple work of art. Although your work might lack precision, you can capture an image or a scene, or make a quick copy of a piece of art you saw.</em></p><p></p><p>One of these will come into play at some point in many campaigns. So yes I would say in general I would say painters tools are a sidegrade if not an outright upgrade to a shield proficiency you do not intend to use.</p><p></p><p>Finally, exchanging a shield proficiency for the eldritch adept feat (which is what we are talking about doing here) is a huge upgrade. Under Tasha's racial rules you can exchange an armor proficiency (which shields is) for a tool, which puts them more or less on the same level and makes it an appropriate tradeoff.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 8654822, member: 7030563"] First, You do not need proficiency to use a shield in an emergency. Any character can get the +2 AC from a shield. Second, a shield is only usable if you are actually have it and if you do not intend to use it you will probably not buy it or carry it. Further it takes an action to don, making it generally less useful than dodging in "an emergency" even if you do have it. Since any character can use the shield, what the proficiency actually affords you is the ability to make checks, make attacks and cast spells without disadvantage. Yet here you are giving up an ability check, attack or spell casting opportunity to don this shield, meaning that passing a check, landing an attack or casting a spell is not that important in this particular "emergency" anyway. Third, there is only a 10% chance per attack that the +2 bonus even matters, making it very ineffective in an "emergency". Where a sheild is effective is when you are targeted by hundreds of attacks over days or weeks resulting a significant statistical difference between wielding it and not wielding it. Since we are talking about "emergency" uses we do not have the high volume of attacks targeting the character that someone who regularly uses a shield will have and therefore it is MUCH less effective at protecting the character. If you are trying to don your shield to prevent getting swallowed by a purple worm there is a 10% chance it will work, the other 90% of the time it will be irrelevant. On average the chances are the+2 will make no difference at all unless you are targeted 7 or more times and you would need to be targeted 18 times before there would be a 80% chance that the +2 would make a difference. Since we do not normally use a shield, we are not targeted by the large numbers of attacks to make the bonus relevant. Fourth, depending on the specifics of the "emergency" painters tools might actually be more useful. Originally I picked carpenters tools, but I changed it to painters tools because carpenters tools are way more useful than a shield you don't use, and carpenters tools would be a substantial upgrade in play. Even with painters tools though let's compare what these two would offer: [B]Shield proficiency-[/B] RAW all this does is allow you to make checks without disadvantage, attacks without disadvantage and cast spells in combat, while using a shield that you do not ever intend to use, and probably are not carrying, and only after you spend an action to don it. Out of combat it has no use at all as you can simply doff it. So it has a miniscule chance at some point of coming into play in one of three of the game pillars. Here are some of the things you can do with painters tools that are called out in the RAW, and for most of them you do not need the tools themselves: [I]Proficiency with painter's supplies represents your ability to paint and draw. You also acquire an understanding of art history, which can aid you in examining works of art. [B]Components.[/B] Painter's supplies include an easel, canvas, paints, brushes, charcoal sticks, and a palette. [B]Arcana, History, Religion. [/B]Your expertise aids you in uncovering lore of any sort that is attached to a work of art, such as the magical properties of a painting or the origins of a strange mural found in a dungeon. [B]Investigation, Perception.[/B] When you inspect a painting or a similar work of visual art, your knowledge of the practices behind creating it can grant you additional insight. [B]Painting and Drawing.[/B] As part of a short or long rest, you can produce a simple work of art. Although your work might lack precision, you can capture an image or a scene, or make a quick copy of a piece of art you saw.[/I] One of these will come into play at some point in many campaigns. So yes I would say in general I would say painters tools are a sidegrade if not an outright upgrade to a shield proficiency you do not intend to use. Finally, exchanging a shield proficiency for the eldritch adept feat (which is what we are talking about doing here) is a huge upgrade. Under Tasha's racial rules you can exchange an armor proficiency (which shields is) for a tool, which puts them more or less on the same level and makes it an appropriate tradeoff. [/QUOTE]
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Would you allow switching shield proficiency for Agonizing Blast as a DM?
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