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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Sigil" data-source="post: 1957114" data-attributes="member: 2013">One final needlepoint directed to no one in particular...SUPPOSITION: Drinking and patronizing brothels are against the teachings of of Cedric's religious order with regard to code of conduct (which I gather from Magnus' comments).PREMISE 1: Tenets/teachings of that order come from the priests of that religious order.PREMISE 2: The priests of the religious order represent the legitimate authority of that order (if they did not represent the deity in question, they would not receive spells, etc., no?)AXIOM: The paladin's code requires him to "respect legitimate authority."COROLLARY: "Respecting legitimate authority" means "obeying the instructions - including code of conduct" given by that authority within the scope of its authority.CONCLUSION:  Cedric drinks and patronizes brothels.  This is against the teachings of his order with regard to code of conduct (supposition).  These instructions come from the priests of his order (premise 1), who represent legitimate authority (premise 2).  In not following these instructions, Cedric is not respecting legitimate authority (corollary).  Therefore, by axiom 1, Cedric is in violation of the paladin's code and thus loses his paladinhood.CONCLUSION 2: If Cedric does not follow the teachings of the order and keeps his paladinhood, one of the suppositions, premises, or the corollary above is incorrect (the axiom cannot be).  This means that if Cedric is played as written and keeps his paladinhood:a.) Drinking and womanizing are NOT proscribed by the clergy of Cedric's church (unlikely given the fiction piece).b.) The priests of his order do not represent the legitimate authority of a deity (possible, but checking on this would be as simple as checking on whether or not they receive clerical empowerment).c.) That "respecting legitimate authority" has a meaning other than "obedience" (possible, but I don't think that's the intent of the rules).This is not my only objection to Cedric (obviously), but if he's not living up to the tenets of the order as preached by those in authority (the priests), he's not exactly "respecting legitimate authority."As a second aside, this piece makes for a great example of "absolute morality" versus "relative morality" - though in this case (to the dismay of some, I'm sure), the "relative morality" of the culture in question (Cedric's order) is set higher than - rather than "lower than" the level of absolute morality, which is seldom perceived to be the case.  But that's another discussion altogether. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />--The Sigil(BTW, I can see the other side's argument, but I think it's important to consider all the ramifications from both sides, and it's turned into an excellent and mature discussion - which is why I continue to post <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ).</blockquote>

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