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Would you allow this paladin in your game? (new fiction added 11/11/08)
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<blockquote data-quote="Ormiss" data-source="post: 2043451" data-attributes="member: 26362"><p>Firstly, Elder-Basilisk, thank you for voicing your argument in such a lucid and elaborate manner. It was most refreshing to read your point of view, and it saves me the trouble necessary to elucidate my own thoughts on the subject. Actually, I've been nodding my head to the beat of your posts all through this (rather gargantuan) thread.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>I've actually forgotten whose quote this was... Mallus'? Anyway, you do bring up a good point, and I agree that there is much inherently wrong in the way feudalism was executed in pretty much all countries. However, I would attribute this to the will to power inherent in all governments. Even today, in the most "civilized" nations on earth, we are being mistreated by powerhungry officials. The only difference is that we have media ready to blow the cover on knights who abuse their power by ravaging peasant girls on the way to the market. Aside from that, I dare say there would be no difference at all.</p><p></p><p>Someone asked earlier how one could assume that it would be possible to overthrow the practice of prostitution. It was asked how a paladin could even begin to address this wrong. Might I point out that the paladin's job description is to eliminate evil from the world? If that's not a "lost cause" then I don't know one. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Furthermore, Sir Cedric himself believes that his championship of good is futile but necessary. He could very well apply this thought to the abolishment of prostitution as well. As several people said, it's not necessary (in fact I view it as directly wrong) to sleep with a prostitute in order to protect and cure her. Sir Cedric could spend the time playing cards with the girls instead, and pay for their time. "Stardust and gumdrops" aside, I think most prostitutes would prefer that.</p><p></p><p>There has been a lot of talk about what is legal or not in Sir Cedric's fantasy nation. I would like to posit this argument.</p><p></p><p>1) A paladin is lawful good.</p><p></p><p>2) In most campaigns that I've seen, paladins tend to have the authority and partial duty to enforce the laws of her kingdom.</p><p></p><p>3) If the paladin lives in a lawful evil society which, for instance, has a law that allows men who perceive an insult to their honor from a woman to... (well, use your imagination) then his actions, if he adhered to the concept of lawful good, would be considered chaotic by the government.</p><p></p><p>Can the "lawful" aspect be surgically removed from the "good" aspect? If a paladin perceives that a written law in his kingdom is not "good", what would he do about it? Can a paladin exist in a nation which is not lawful good? Can a paladin exist in a nation which is lawful neutral? Who determines whether the law is good or not?</p><p></p><p>My point? Well, even if prostitution is legalized, does that mean that Sir Cedric thinks that it is a good law?</p><p></p><p>Does it mean that a more iconic paladin, Sir Goody-two-shoes, thinks that it is a good law?</p><p></p><p>Would either of them enforce it, or adhere to it?</p><p></p><p>What if Sir Cedric travels to another kingdom; will he obey their laws?</p><p></p><p>In my eyes, this is a fatal problem with "Lawful Good," because I personally feel that the law can, in many situations, counter-act the good. The whole point of Lawful Evil is that the person abuses, without breaking, a lawful system to commit acts of evil.</p><p></p><p>Of course, it could be construed that the paladin only obeys divine law. If you subscribe to that notion, nevermind my ramblings. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ormiss, post: 2043451, member: 26362"] Firstly, Elder-Basilisk, thank you for voicing your argument in such a lucid and elaborate manner. It was most refreshing to read your point of view, and it saves me the trouble necessary to elucidate my own thoughts on the subject. Actually, I've been nodding my head to the beat of your posts all through this (rather gargantuan) thread. I've actually forgotten whose quote this was... Mallus'? Anyway, you do bring up a good point, and I agree that there is much inherently wrong in the way feudalism was executed in pretty much all countries. However, I would attribute this to the will to power inherent in all governments. Even today, in the most "civilized" nations on earth, we are being mistreated by powerhungry officials. The only difference is that we have media ready to blow the cover on knights who abuse their power by ravaging peasant girls on the way to the market. Aside from that, I dare say there would be no difference at all. Someone asked earlier how one could assume that it would be possible to overthrow the practice of prostitution. It was asked how a paladin could even begin to address this wrong. Might I point out that the paladin's job description is to eliminate evil from the world? If that's not a "lost cause" then I don't know one. :) Furthermore, Sir Cedric himself believes that his championship of good is futile but necessary. He could very well apply this thought to the abolishment of prostitution as well. As several people said, it's not necessary (in fact I view it as directly wrong) to sleep with a prostitute in order to protect and cure her. Sir Cedric could spend the time playing cards with the girls instead, and pay for their time. "Stardust and gumdrops" aside, I think most prostitutes would prefer that. There has been a lot of talk about what is legal or not in Sir Cedric's fantasy nation. I would like to posit this argument. 1) A paladin is lawful good. 2) In most campaigns that I've seen, paladins tend to have the authority and partial duty to enforce the laws of her kingdom. 3) If the paladin lives in a lawful evil society which, for instance, has a law that allows men who perceive an insult to their honor from a woman to... (well, use your imagination) then his actions, if he adhered to the concept of lawful good, would be considered chaotic by the government. Can the "lawful" aspect be surgically removed from the "good" aspect? If a paladin perceives that a written law in his kingdom is not "good", what would he do about it? Can a paladin exist in a nation which is not lawful good? Can a paladin exist in a nation which is lawful neutral? Who determines whether the law is good or not? My point? Well, even if prostitution is legalized, does that mean that Sir Cedric thinks that it is a good law? Does it mean that a more iconic paladin, Sir Goody-two-shoes, thinks that it is a good law? Would either of them enforce it, or adhere to it? What if Sir Cedric travels to another kingdom; will he obey their laws? In my eyes, this is a fatal problem with "Lawful Good," because I personally feel that the law can, in many situations, counter-act the good. The whole point of Lawful Evil is that the person abuses, without breaking, a lawful system to commit acts of evil. Of course, it could be construed that the paladin only obeys divine law. If you subscribe to that notion, nevermind my ramblings. :) [/QUOTE]
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