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<blockquote data-quote="The Sigil" data-source="post: 2044909" data-attributes="member: 2013">But your definition of Lawful isn't relevant in this particular situation.&nbsp; The original post specifically limited discussion to the rules as written (the SRD) - therefore, for the purposes of this discussion, if the SRD contradicts your definition, you are wrong. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />This is handwaving to dismiss any aspects of alignment that you don't happen to like (or happen to poke holes in your argument).&nbsp; That doesn't make the points less valid. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Not at all.&nbsp; &quot;Lawful characters ... respect authority.&quot;&nbsp; That does not mean that they may not privately disagree with some of the local laws, which are not Lawful (with a capital L; i.e., &quot;absolutely morally Lawful&quot; as opposed to &quot;legal&quot;).&nbsp; Whom a character accepts - or should accept - as the &quot;proper authorities&quot; in an area will vary by alignment on the good-evil axis.I don't see it.&nbsp; &quot;Lawful&quot; in lawful good means that the character sees &quot;Law&quot; as the best means to bring about good for all (i.e., laws should protect the innocent, respect life, and otherwise comply with &quot;good&quot;).&nbsp; &quot;Lawful&quot; in lawful neutral means the character sees law as the best way to bring about eqiutable treatment of all (the &quot;neutral part&quot;).&nbsp; &quot;Lawful&quot; in lawful evil means the character sees law as the best way to bring about evil (without respect for freedom, dignity, or life).In all three cases, the &quot;Law&quot; is seen as the ideal means to achieving an end.&nbsp; A lawful good character will reject the legitimacy of Evil laws and is therefore able to break them with no special repercussions (for instance, in a corrupt citystate it might be illegal to pray to any non-evil deity; a Lawful Good character will reject this law as it is &quot;evil&quot; and suffers no particular repercussions; that law is not a Law, if you will); similarly, a lawful evil character will probably reject the legitimacy of Good laws (for instance, he might reject the legitimacy of a law that requires all citizens to protect any innocent that asks for protection; after all, if he did that, he'd never be able to get around to his own ends).It appears (to me) that this is consistent across the alignments - your alignment on the &quot;law-chaos&quot; axis reflects your belief in what the &quot;Best&quot; means to achieve the end your alignment on the &quot;good-evil&quot; axis dictates.As an aside, most laws and traditions - ESPECIALLY cultural ones (to go along with your &quot;riding from town to town&quot; note) - are lawful with a small &quot;l.&quot;&nbsp; Finding Lawful laws (with a &quot;large L&quot;) that all characters, regardless of good-evil alignment will accept, is considerably harder.(Hope that was clear; I didn't clarify as much as I would have liked to because it's time for me to go to lunch).--The Sigil</blockquote>

[QUOTE="The Sigil, post: 2044909, member: 2013"] But [b]your[/b] definition of Lawful isn't relevant in this particular situation. The original post specifically limited discussion to the rules as written (the SRD) - therefore, [i]for the purposes of this discussion,[/i] if the SRD contradicts your definition, you are wrong. ;) This is handwaving to dismiss any aspects of alignment that you don't happen to like (or happen to poke holes in your argument). That doesn't make the points less valid. ;) Not at all. "Lawful characters ... respect authority." That does not mean that they may not privately disagree with some of the local laws, which are not Lawful (with a capital L; i.e., "absolutely morally Lawful" as opposed to "legal"). Whom a character accepts - or should accept - as the "proper authorities" in an area will vary by alignment on the good-evil axis. I don't see it. "Lawful" in lawful good means that the character sees "Law" as the best means to bring about good for all (i.e., laws should protect the innocent, respect life, and otherwise comply with "good"). "Lawful" in lawful neutral means the character sees law as the best way to bring about eqiutable treatment of all (the "neutral part"). "Lawful" in lawful evil means the character sees law as the best way to bring about evil (without respect for freedom, dignity, or life). In all three cases, the "Law" is seen as the ideal means to achieving an end. A lawful good character will reject the legitimacy of Evil laws and is therefore able to break them with no special repercussions (for instance, in a corrupt citystate it might be illegal to pray to any non-evil deity; a Lawful Good character will reject this law as it is "evil" and suffers no particular repercussions; that law is not a Law, if you will); similarly, a lawful evil character will probably reject the legitimacy of Good laws (for instance, he might reject the legitimacy of a law that requires all citizens to protect any innocent that asks for protection; after all, if he did that, he'd never be able to get around to his own ends). It appears (to me) that this is consistent across the alignments - your alignment on the "law-chaos" axis reflects your belief in what the "Best" means to achieve the end your alignment on the "good-evil" axis dictates. As an aside, most laws and traditions - ESPECIALLY cultural ones (to go along with your "riding from town to town" note) - are lawful with a small "l." Finding Lawful laws (with a "large L") that all characters, regardless of good-evil alignment will accept, is considerably harder. (Hope that was clear; I didn't clarify as much as I would have liked to because it's time for me to go to lunch). --The Sigil [/QUOTE]

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