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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Sigil" data-source="post: 2785666" data-attributes="member: 2013">I'll point you back towards one of my posts earlier in this thread.  In a nutshell, the debate can be reduced to a single point:The "and so forth" phrase in the rules as written implies that the list of forbidden activities is *exemplary*, not *exhaustive* - i.e., just because a given activity is not specifically written out as forbidden in the rules, that does not automatically make it okay (kind of like if I tell my kids they can't do heroin, cocaine, meth, marijuana, or LSD ... I'm not going to accept as a defense when they come home stoned on PCP that PCP happened not to be on my forbidden list so I obviously intended for them to use it - my intent was obvious in proscribing drugs entirely, and they're just trying to loophole their way out of it).Note that The Rules As Written themselves require the paladin's code to be played as the Rules As Interpreted!  Unless you would like to suggest that the phrase "and so forth" should be read as not adding any activities to the list of those specifically prohibited.And of course, once you get started on creating that list, it becomes a matter of philosophical interpretation, whether you like it or not.If we truly wish to nitpick and slavishly bind ourselves to RAW, without concern of interpretation...Hurting, oppressing and killing others is Evil.  A paladin is forbidden to commit an evil act.  Therefore, the moment a paladin hurts another creature - does one hit point of damage to any creature any time, anywhere, ever - he automatically loses his paladinhood.  Except, of course, when they use their "Smite Evil" ability, because that is specifically allowed by the rules... so a paladin can attack once or twice a day (or a few times a day at high levels).  Sure hope he hits on that attack!Do you believe in this view of the paladin?  A holy warrior who is forbidden to unsheath his sword except to attempt to Sunder weapons and fight defensively the entire time, never able to actually attack?  It's based on a strict reading of the rules as written!Of course not... you INTERPRET the rules to allow a paladin to attack - and destroy - the agents of evil.  But that's not what the Rules as Written allow, is it? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />As I mentioned before, the Rules As Written themselves require (by the phrase "and so forth") that the paladin code contain AT LEAST one more item on the "forbidden list" and possibly more... and determining the remainder of that list can only be done by Interpretation, so the Rules as Written ARE the Rules as Interpreted. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />In addition, Defenders of the Faith is not a core book (which, IIRC, was the stipulation at the start of the thread). <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  But it brings up an interesting question... I don't have a copy of the Book of Vile Darkness, but I seem to remember on my brief pass through it that it mentioned certain activities (torture, murder, mutilation, etc.) as "Evil" as defined by D&D.  Would someone who has a copy of the book care to check to see if "prostitution" or "visiting prostitutes" or "fornication" or "adultery" or some other activity that could directly be applied to Cedric's brothel visits is on that list?(Takes off devil's advocate hat).--The Sigil</blockquote>

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