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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 6042861" data-attributes="member: 6668292">Someone I can rely on. I don't find this to be the case unless I'm willing to do things his way. That's reliable some of the time, but not much of the time (especially since he's bucking tradition and conventions).Boy did I mess that up. I meant the Cleric paid for it. I'm sure that the Cleric tried to get Cedric in line, first, and Cedric certainly bucked against it. No, I'm saying he blew off what the elder of his church said. He doesn't take "you need to act this way" from basically anyone. That's "resents authority" on a rather massive scale. He doesn't mind working with them, but he seems to fight against getting told what to do from anyone.I disagree (though, again, the fiction slowly warped more in favor of Cedric the more it dragged on). The church obviously teaches people how to live, and those members seem to come to the same conclusions. And, again, you're arguing what his god will take away, not the churches teachings (though Shilsen did try to make it impossible to argue when he decided the church didn't have any teachings one way or the other on stuff). And I don't believe a god grants Paladinhood, so that doesn't mean much to me.There's a reason that people of the church act a certain way, and why Father Shikuna is so weary when he needs to explain it again; this is nowhere near the first time people have had a problem with Cedric. He's the outlier. He's not accepting tradition, or being told what to do, and he's going to live his life, and people can accept it or get lost. He doesn't care if you don't approve, what you think of him, or if you get upset.Yes, Shilsen stripped his powers away when the priest moved against Cedric. I mean, up to this point he's had his powers, teaching against Cedric using these powers, and he's fine. The church still apparently strongly leans that way (indicated by the Father's weariness), but no, it doesn't matter, the old head priest moved against Cedric, so he loses all of his powers. To call him a heretic is nearly nonsensical.Can you explain to me what flexibility is, then? He's willing to bend in ways that most others won't. He accepts things that people in his position don't. He takes a strict code and pushes it as far as he can (but never breaks it). He's all about flexibility.No, he knows what his god wants more (in the fiction). The church obviously had a problem with it. Members of the church do, and they're not all stripped of their power. The younger Paladin didn't lose his power for looking down on Cedric, though the high priest did. Cedric knows the Code well enough that his god (in this fiction) protects him. That's fine, sure. Cedric is a badass that can really do no wrong; that's also fine for a Paladin. It's part of the archetype, really. But Cedric can do it even though everyone disagrees. That's the point. It's not "there's an order of Cedric's out there." No, the point is that he bucks the system, the traditions. And that's defined as Chaotic.Presumably an order from the high priest prior to him trying to change the laws to get Cedric to stop. Regardless, he's certainly gone against how he's "expected" to act.I agree. Aside from that one line, and the other two fit well (the Chaotic one very well). If he's exhibiting characteristics of Lawful and Chaotic deeds (and he is in my mind), and he fits the description of Neutral Good with no misses, Chaotic Good very well, and Lawful Good with one exception, then he's probably somewhere in the middle. Again, that makes me place him at Neutral with Chaotic tendencies. Lawful doesn't comment on violence, and Lawful does not mean "following the law." I don't understand the comparison. Though if I took him through all the descriptions of the alignments, I think he might end up Neutral, too.Again, the point of the thread is a comment on a Paladin by RAW. The RAW gets fuzzy because sometimes it needs interpretation (the "Honor" section of the code saying "and so forth", interpreting alignment, and the like), but this is not one of those times. In the spirit of the thread and its judgment of RAW, I'm sticking to my comment on Atonement and Paladins.Maybe. If it breaks his Code of honor, too, he won't get his powers back.Two things on this. One, still not Core, which I've said it's what I'm dealing with (since that's the context of the Paladin class). Two, specific trumps general. That means that Paladins can only be Atoned for Evil acts, while Grey Guards have a looser restriction (since they aren't even mentioned by Atonement, it's covered in the class).Technically, the class says that Grey Guards can get their Paladin powers back. Not that a normal Paladin can. And we're out of the Core 3, too. The rules, in the Core 3, have specific rules for turning an Ex-Paladin back into a Paladin, and that only includes Atoning from Evil acts. I'll accept a source you site from the Core 3, or from errata, since the thread is about the Paladin's Code, and it seemingly meant Core (otherwise why not make him a Chaotic Good Paladin of Freedom and be done with it? Then he wouldn't be bucking the system).I think we've just about run out. I'm definitely not going to convince you, and that's fine. I just don't feel any of my points have been adequately countered or disproven. I think it might be time to respectfully end the conversation, and I want to say thanks again for the civil discussion on it. You can take the last word if you want to, and happy gaming in the future. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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