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Would you allow this paladin in your game? (new fiction added 11/11/08)
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<blockquote data-quote="Aurondarklord" data-source="post: 6051943" data-attributes="member: 6667464"><p>Okay, Pemerton, I think we're comparing apples and oranges here.</p><p></p><p>Did you just describe a very interesting piece of fiction that would be enjoyable to role play out? absolutely.</p><p></p><p>Did you discuss any game mechanics? ....No.</p><p></p><p>See, that's what makes D&D, and the whole genre of tabletop/play by post games, with fixed rules or freeform, that all spawned from D&D, so unique, they're a game and a story at the same time, and sometimes those elements are in competition with each other. Some groups prefer to ignore game mechanics sometimes in favor of telling the story they want to tell, other groups prefer to make their story fit the mechanics, but you cannot ignore the mechanics and the "game" side of things completely and still claim to actually be playing D&D. You might be having a lot of fun, but whatever you're doing it's something besides this game.</p><p></p><p>The scenario you described, barring some sort of story element that actually dictates that the paladin doing these things was acting morally, appears to me to be in conflict with the 3E paladin as written, because he dedicated himself and his quest to a goal entirely in defiance of what, as far as I can tell, was the greatest source of legitimate authority in the setting, the pantheon.</p><p></p><p>Of course, that's completely fine, if you choose to ignore certain mechanical limitations of the paladin or amend the way the class works to suit your game, that's entirely your decision, but you ARE ignoring an element of the game rules and while morality may still be a theme of the story, it is no longer a mechanical element of the game at such a table. Personally, I'm sorry to say that as fun as what you wrote sounds, I probably wouldn't allow it for a paladin at my table because, as an extension of respect for legitimate authority, I see the paladin's code as requiring that a paladin have enough humility to accept that he or she is just a mortal, and may not be capable of seeing the whole picture at the cosmic scale, and trusting the deities or whatever relevant heavenly powers to have the wisdom to know what they're doing, even if the paladin can't understand it. Giving Heaven the finger and charging off to do things your way like a 90s antihero, should not, IMO, be the mentality of the paladin class. But the paladin at my table doesn't have to be like the paladin at your table and that's the beauty of the game.</p><p></p><p>But if we are discussing the rules as written, and this is in large part a rules thread, then the DM has to make those calls, because just leaving it to the player removes that element of the game mechanics.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aurondarklord, post: 6051943, member: 6667464"] Okay, Pemerton, I think we're comparing apples and oranges here. Did you just describe a very interesting piece of fiction that would be enjoyable to role play out? absolutely. Did you discuss any game mechanics? ....No. See, that's what makes D&D, and the whole genre of tabletop/play by post games, with fixed rules or freeform, that all spawned from D&D, so unique, they're a game and a story at the same time, and sometimes those elements are in competition with each other. Some groups prefer to ignore game mechanics sometimes in favor of telling the story they want to tell, other groups prefer to make their story fit the mechanics, but you cannot ignore the mechanics and the "game" side of things completely and still claim to actually be playing D&D. You might be having a lot of fun, but whatever you're doing it's something besides this game. The scenario you described, barring some sort of story element that actually dictates that the paladin doing these things was acting morally, appears to me to be in conflict with the 3E paladin as written, because he dedicated himself and his quest to a goal entirely in defiance of what, as far as I can tell, was the greatest source of legitimate authority in the setting, the pantheon. Of course, that's completely fine, if you choose to ignore certain mechanical limitations of the paladin or amend the way the class works to suit your game, that's entirely your decision, but you ARE ignoring an element of the game rules and while morality may still be a theme of the story, it is no longer a mechanical element of the game at such a table. Personally, I'm sorry to say that as fun as what you wrote sounds, I probably wouldn't allow it for a paladin at my table because, as an extension of respect for legitimate authority, I see the paladin's code as requiring that a paladin have enough humility to accept that he or she is just a mortal, and may not be capable of seeing the whole picture at the cosmic scale, and trusting the deities or whatever relevant heavenly powers to have the wisdom to know what they're doing, even if the paladin can't understand it. Giving Heaven the finger and charging off to do things your way like a 90s antihero, should not, IMO, be the mentality of the paladin class. But the paladin at my table doesn't have to be like the paladin at your table and that's the beauty of the game. But if we are discussing the rules as written, and this is in large part a rules thread, then the DM has to make those calls, because just leaving it to the player removes that element of the game mechanics. [/QUOTE]
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Would you allow this paladin in your game? (new fiction added 11/11/08)
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