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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9251517" data-attributes="member: 6801228">I think the talk of balance kind of misses the entire point on why this is a bad idea. Let us say you implement the second idea from the OP, at character creation roll a d6, and if you roll a 6, you get a more powerful class. What is going to happen? Well, a ton of people who want to play the more powerful class... are just going to do it. After all, it is perfectly allowed by the game, and being allowed or not allowed to play your concept based on a random die roll is a pretty arbitrary measure. There is literally no reason to respect that sort of limit. Okay, let us say you take the class and you give it some restrictions, like the Paladin of old. What is going to happen? Well, the Bladesinger was original Elf or Half-Elf, and people played them with goliaths, humans, and whatever else they felt with pretty immediately. Let's say you get a powerful class, but all gold burns you for 1 pt of damage a round if you touch it in exchange for your powers? Well, the people who don't ignore that will find trivial work arounds. What if it is an RP restriction? People will ignore them if they don't want to do them, or offer alternatives. Unless these are specific, mechanical restrictions like &quot;you cannot get feats&quot; or &quot;you cannot wield ranged weapons&quot; they will be ignored or bypassed, because they are just arbitrary and meaningless restrictions. &quot;You cannot knowingly adventure with an evil character.&quot; &quot;Um, but the Cleric of Shar in the party?&quot; &quot;Well... I guess it is fine as long as you don't like adventuring with her?&quot; After all, not fair to have your character concept ruined by another player playing their concept. So, end of the day, what will this amount to? More Powerful classes for the sake of more powerful classes. Which, hey, not complaining. But if the goal is to create these classes with non-mechanical limits or limits based on random chance... it just isn't going to happen.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9251517, member: 6801228"] I think the talk of balance kind of misses the entire point on why this is a bad idea. Let us say you implement the second idea from the OP, at character creation roll a d6, and if you roll a 6, you get a more powerful class. What is going to happen? Well, a ton of people who want to play the more powerful class... are just going to do it. After all, it is perfectly allowed by the game, and being allowed or not allowed to play your concept based on a random die roll is a pretty arbitrary measure. There is literally no reason to respect that sort of limit. Okay, let us say you take the class and you give it some restrictions, like the Paladin of old. What is going to happen? Well, the Bladesinger was original Elf or Half-Elf, and people played them with goliaths, humans, and whatever else they felt with pretty immediately. Let's say you get a powerful class, but all gold burns you for 1 pt of damage a round if you touch it in exchange for your powers? Well, the people who don't ignore that will find trivial work arounds. What if it is an RP restriction? People will ignore them if they don't want to do them, or offer alternatives. Unless these are specific, mechanical restrictions like "you cannot get feats" or "you cannot wield ranged weapons" they will be ignored or bypassed, because they are just arbitrary and meaningless restrictions. "You cannot knowingly adventure with an evil character." "Um, but the Cleric of Shar in the party?" "Well... I guess it is fine as long as you don't like adventuring with her?" After all, not fair to have your character concept ruined by another player playing their concept. So, end of the day, what will this amount to? More Powerful classes for the sake of more powerful classes. Which, hey, not complaining. But if the goal is to create these classes with non-mechanical limits or limits based on random chance... it just isn't going to happen. [/QUOTE]

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