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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kenjib" data-source="post: 523132" data-attributes="member: 530">They are not.  I haven't seen that asserted anywhere.  If a game came out which actively endorsed the rape, torture, and murder of innocent people for pleasure, I would most certainly not support such a game either.As with most people here, games with these elements are fine.  Racist and sexist cultural elements in context are perhaps even to be expected in a living, breathing, game world.  However, every fantasy world has a moral framework, whether or not anyone chooses to acknowledge it.  If this moral framework endorses these activities, then I the game is morally offensive to me (I don't speak for anyone else of course) and I will not support it.  If it presents these activities are part of the world in a negative fashion than I think including these things is just fine.  Furthermore, I would argue that including these things in a neutrally historical manner also implicitly portrays them in a negative fashion, because most of us inherently view this historical conditions as negatives.  Furthermore a more impartial handling allows us to apply our own morality to it, satisfying people of all sorts.So, they are only a problem to me when presented in a positive manner and/or are actively endorsed and supported by the system.Sure you can make those arguments and that's fine.  That doesn't at all contradict my argument though, which is that creating a game system that inherently supports and reinforces racism and sexism is not something I would support.  You've gone off on a tangent.Your new example of demon summoning doesn't really hold up.  First of all, the D&D game is a game biased towards heroes, and the demons and evils they are supposed to overcome.  As I've said above, it's fine with me to include racism in the same light as long as it's okay with everyone else I'm playing with.  Second, the people you mention who are upset by demon summoning do not play the game precisely because of this, so they have spoken in the same manner that I would against a racist or sexist game.  This is the same thing I'm saying.  If the game supports things I find offensive, I won't support it.Because those who tie D&D to demon worship are a minority in our society (compared to people who disapprove of racism and sexism) this does not currently impact the market to a point where the publishers are influenced -- although this did happen in the 80's.  The problem with what happened in the 80's was that the influence was directed not only from a vocal minority, but from a vocal minority who did not play the game effecting a market that did not include anyone in that vocal minority.  By comparison, not including racism and sexism is a trend pressed by a majority at large that is also the majority of the playing population.Also, like Buttercup, I've never said anything about banning.  In fact, the people who don't like demon worshipping (who, conveniently, you mentioned as a foil to myself) are the ones who advocate banning.</blockquote>

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