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Wow, do I hate rolling for stats!
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<blockquote data-quote="Aberzanzorax" data-source="post: 5394124" data-attributes="member: 64209"><p><strong>Why not just roll for level?</strong></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>No...seriously!</p><p> </p><p>Picture two fighters, <span style="color: lime">One</span> with a 10 con and a 10 str (bonus of 0 and 0), and another (<span style="color: red">Two</span>) with 18 con and 18 str (bonus of +4 per lvl and +4.)</p><p> </p><p><span style="color: blue"><strong><u>At lvl 1</u></strong></span>, <span style="color: lime">Ftr One</span> has 10 hp and an attack of 1, and does weapon damage, while <span style="color: red">Ftr Two</span> has 14 hp and an attack of 5 and does weapon damage plus 4.</p><p> </p><p><span style="color: blue"><strong><u>At lvl 5</u></strong></span>, <span style="color: lime">Ftr One</span> has about 33 hp, an attack of 5, and does weapon damage. <span style="color: red">Ftr Two</span> has about 53 hp, an attack of 9, and still weapon damage plus 4.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color: yellow"><strong><em>One of these things is not like the other.</em></strong></span> In fact, <span style="color: red">Ftr Two</span> is better at lvl 1 than <span style="color: lime">Ftr One</span> is at lvl 2 (having a mere 15 hp, an attack of 2, and weapon damage versus the <span style="color: red">Ftr Two</span> stats above). Even moreso, <span style="color: lime">Ftr One</span> doesn't catch <span style="color: red">Ftr Two's</span> level 5 stats until level....</p><p> </p><p><span style="color: darkorange"><strong><u>NINE.</u></strong></span></p><p> </p><p><strong><u><span style="color: #ff8c00">It takes until level 9 for <span style="color: lime">Ftr One</span> to match level 5 <span style="color: red">Ftr Two</span>.</span></u></strong></p><p> </p><p>At level 9, <span style="color: lime">Fighter 1</span> gets 55 hp, an attack of 9, and does weapon damage with no bonus! (potentially add 9 hp or 1 to hit/damage depending on where the lvl 4 and 8 ability score bonus points went, but remember that <span style="color: red">Ftr 2</span> also can add bonuses as well). </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>I'll concede mitigating factors like magic items and such and so on, but the base is there...<span style="color: darkorange"><em>lvl 5 for one guy is about equivalent to lvl 9 for the other.</em></span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>When I ask<em> "Why not just roll for level?"</em> I sorta mean it. It's ok if the game embraces variable power mechanics...not all players HAVE to be the same power lvl, and some can be weaker/follower/commoner types versus the more powerful leader types. (You can even have fun with juxtaposing a "weaker" leader with a "stronger" follower.) But really, in d20, ability scores can mean almost as much, or more than, levels. <em><u>If the assumption that rolling for levels is absurd, then so is the assumption of rolling for scores.</u></em> However, I don't mean to claim either is necessarily absurd per se. I just mean to point out that rolling randomly for stats that establish long term (perhaps for the duration of a campaign) power has an impact. That impact will set roles, and in a game of balance, will offset balance. </p><p> </p><p>I'd be ok playing a "weak" character, even a squire or follower, in a good roleplaying focused game...but man, I'd HATE playing a squire to another pc in a sort of chess game of survival and hack and slash....it'd be like "you gotta fight these baddies, but YOU, and only you, get a handicap for the whole game...and guess who gets to be the pawn as opposed to a king in a fight of pawns, knights, bishops, rooks, queens and kings?".</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>SOOOOO, yeah, I'm not a fan of permanent bonuses being randomized. I AM a HUGE fan of randomization during play, though! I think it adds a ton of excitement, on the fly thinking, and creativity for explanations as well as tactics.</p><p> </p><p>But randomization for initial character generation or for permanent character development (like hps, or, for example, number of skill points or base attack points?)...<strong>NO</strong>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aberzanzorax, post: 5394124, member: 64209"] [B]Why not just roll for level?[/B] No...seriously! Picture two fighters, [COLOR=lime]One[/COLOR] with a 10 con and a 10 str (bonus of 0 and 0), and another ([COLOR=red]Two[/COLOR]) with 18 con and 18 str (bonus of +4 per lvl and +4.) [COLOR=blue][B][U]At lvl 1[/U][/B][/COLOR], [COLOR=lime]Ftr One[/COLOR] has 10 hp and an attack of 1, and does weapon damage, while [COLOR=red]Ftr Two[/COLOR] has 14 hp and an attack of 5 and does weapon damage plus 4. [COLOR=blue][B][U]At lvl 5[/U][/B][/COLOR], [COLOR=lime]Ftr One[/COLOR] has about 33 hp, an attack of 5, and does weapon damage. [COLOR=red]Ftr Two[/COLOR] has about 53 hp, an attack of 9, and still weapon damage plus 4. [COLOR=yellow][B][I]One of these things is not like the other.[/I][/B][/COLOR] In fact, [COLOR=red]Ftr Two[/COLOR] is better at lvl 1 than [COLOR=lime]Ftr One[/COLOR] is at lvl 2 (having a mere 15 hp, an attack of 2, and weapon damage versus the [COLOR=red]Ftr Two[/COLOR] stats above). Even moreso, [COLOR=lime]Ftr One[/COLOR] doesn't catch [COLOR=red]Ftr Two's[/COLOR] level 5 stats until level.... [COLOR=darkorange][B][U]NINE.[/U][/B][/COLOR] [B][U][COLOR=#ff8c00]It takes until level 9 for [COLOR=lime]Ftr One[/COLOR] to match level 5 [COLOR=red]Ftr Two[/COLOR].[/COLOR][/U][/B] At level 9, [COLOR=lime]Fighter 1[/COLOR] gets 55 hp, an attack of 9, and does weapon damage with no bonus! (potentially add 9 hp or 1 to hit/damage depending on where the lvl 4 and 8 ability score bonus points went, but remember that [COLOR=red]Ftr 2[/COLOR] also can add bonuses as well). I'll concede mitigating factors like magic items and such and so on, but the base is there...[COLOR=darkorange][I]lvl 5 for one guy is about equivalent to lvl 9 for the other.[/I][/COLOR] When I ask[I] "Why not just roll for level?"[/I] I sorta mean it. It's ok if the game embraces variable power mechanics...not all players HAVE to be the same power lvl, and some can be weaker/follower/commoner types versus the more powerful leader types. (You can even have fun with juxtaposing a "weaker" leader with a "stronger" follower.) But really, in d20, ability scores can mean almost as much, or more than, levels. [I][U]If the assumption that rolling for levels is absurd, then so is the assumption of rolling for scores.[/U][/I] However, I don't mean to claim either is necessarily absurd per se. I just mean to point out that rolling randomly for stats that establish long term (perhaps for the duration of a campaign) power has an impact. That impact will set roles, and in a game of balance, will offset balance. I'd be ok playing a "weak" character, even a squire or follower, in a good roleplaying focused game...but man, I'd HATE playing a squire to another pc in a sort of chess game of survival and hack and slash....it'd be like "you gotta fight these baddies, but YOU, and only you, get a handicap for the whole game...and guess who gets to be the pawn as opposed to a king in a fight of pawns, knights, bishops, rooks, queens and kings?". SOOOOO, yeah, I'm not a fan of permanent bonuses being randomized. I AM a HUGE fan of randomization during play, though! I think it adds a ton of excitement, on the fly thinking, and creativity for explanations as well as tactics. But randomization for initial character generation or for permanent character development (like hps, or, for example, number of skill points or base attack points?)...[B]NO[/B]. [/QUOTE]
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