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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9582209" data-attributes="member: 93670">The critical difference is what creates the problem for 5e.At every level of analysis 5e goes out of its way to roll out the red carpet for bad player expectations that Alice will be forced to directly or indirectly throttle back .&nbsp; Most notably are:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Players are given the expectation of magic items while the monster &amp; skill math has the expectation d&amp;d is not a game swimming in magic items</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Yo-yo healing ensure PCs are basically immune to death.&nbsp; If Dave falls then Bob is 100% certain it's because Alice executed him as everyone watched it obviously being done to overcome yo-yo healing</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">With death immunity Players don't really need to worry much about teamwork and start thinking with a bit of main character syndrome unless Alice is knifing their success with her house rules</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">A completely bonkers skill system reinforces&nbsp; that MCS&nbsp; even outside of combat.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Unbelievably trivialized resting &amp;recovery further erodes any reason to worry about teamwork</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Most importantly is the fact that the system itself does everything it can to imply that the few limits it does have area thing the players are free to ignore by choice through the sheet not supporting it ((ie encumbrance body slots or even attunement tracking) subsystem design (ie encumbrance &amp; Carry capacity is both overly generous to the point of being extremely unlikely to ever matter and not going to actually affect anything interesting even in those edge cases)</li>
</ul>All of those mentally combine multiplicatively to give players bad expectations while ensuring&nbsp; Alice must play the bad guy&nbsp; instead those monsters for them to matter.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 9582209, member: 93670"] The critical difference is what creates the problem for 5e. At [I]every[/I] level of analysis 5e goes out of its way to roll out the red carpet for bad player expectations that Alice will be forced to directly or indirectly throttle back . Most notably are: [LIST] [*]Players are given the expectation of magic items while the monster & skill math has the expectation d&d is not a game swimming in magic items [*]Yo-yo healing ensure PCs are basically immune to death. If Dave falls then Bob is 100% certain it's because Alice executed him as everyone watched it obviously being done to overcome yo-yo healing [*]With death immunity Players don't really need to worry much about teamwork and start thinking with a bit of main character syndrome unless Alice is knifing their success with her house rules [*]A completely bonkers skill system reinforces that MCS even outside of combat. [*]Unbelievably trivialized resting &recovery further erodes any reason to worry about teamwork [*]Most importantly is the fact that the system itself does everything it can to imply that the few limits it [I]does[/I] have area thing the players are free to ignore by choice through the sheet not supporting it ((ie encumbrance body slots or even attunement tracking) subsystem design (ie encumbrance & Carry capacity is both overly generous to the point of being extremely unlikely to ever matter and not going to actually affect anything interesting even in those edge cases) [/LIST] [B]All of those mentally combine multiplicatively[/B] to give players bad expectations while ensuring Alice [I]must[/I] play the bad guy instead those monsters for them to matter. [/QUOTE]

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