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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9591565" data-attributes="member: 93670">Agreed.&nbsp;&nbsp; There's nothing wrong with minmaxing and CharOp, I quite approve of it even, the key is why the player does it and how they use it.&nbsp; Playing to win causes things to go sideways on so many levels when a player has it in their mind that they need to win by beating the gm.&nbsp; Even when the gm is playing the monsters to win to the best of their ability, they are not usually simultaneously playing to beat the players as the gm.The key difference between CharOp and playing to win can be seen starkly contrasted by holding up the <a href="https://youtu.be/TTBpVGeJLzI?si=IJnndKzy36g5V_w-" target="_blank">origins of ye old god wizard</a> in the edition known for maybe going too far with CharOp at times to nearly any of today's broken/monster build guides that often even highlight things like &quot;frustrate your gm&quot; as a selling point in the edition that tried (and failed miserably) to eliminate the extremes of CharOp by making any build more than good enough. n Oe of those was designed to fly under the radar while acting as glue to elevate everyone else at the table when it matters in play... The other is just straight up shooting for world of cardboard man with less concern for his sidekicks where &quot;winning&quot; against the gm becomes possible</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 9591565, member: 93670"] Agreed. There's nothing wrong with minmaxing and CharOp, I quite approve of it even, the key is why the player does it and how they use it. Playing to win causes things to go sideways on so many levels when a player has it in their mind that they need to win by beating the gm. Even when the gm is playing the monsters to win to the best of their ability, they are not usually simultaneously playing to beat the players as the gm. The key difference between CharOp and playing to win can be seen starkly contrasted by holding up the [URL='https://youtu.be/TTBpVGeJLzI?si=IJnndKzy36g5V_w-']origins of ye old god wizard[/URL] in the edition known for maybe going too far with CharOp at times to nearly any of today's broken/monster build guides that often even highlight things like "frustrate your gm" as a selling point in the edition that tried (and failed miserably) to eliminate the extremes of CharOp by making any build more than good enough. n Oe of those was designed to fly under the radar while acting as glue to elevate everyone else at the table when it matters in play... The other is just straight up shooting for world of cardboard man with less concern for his sidekicks where "winning" against the gm becomes possible [/QUOTE]

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